Q:
Looks like the Big 3 aren't the only ones with quality problems.
Toyota recalls vehicles over faulty engine
TOKYO - Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it was recalling about 420,000 vehicles globally, including some Echo and Prius models sold in the U.S., over a faulty engine part.
The faulty part is the latest in a string of problems requiring recalls by Toyota, raising doubts over whether the automaker can maintain quality standards amid booming sales.
The recall affects 268,570 vehicles sold in Japan across 12 models manufactured in 2001, including Corollas, the compact cars Vitz and Platz and the hybrid Prius, the company said in a statement submitted to Japan's Transport Ministry.
A faulty engine part could lead to an oil leak in the engine and cause it to stop, the statement said. There have been no accidents blamed on the fault, according to Toyota.
The recall also affects about 150,000 cars sold overseas, mainly in the United States and Canada, Toyota spokeswoman Shiori Hashimoto said. These autos were also manufactured in 2001.
In the United States, 24,490 cars sold under the name Echo and Yaris, as well as 8,476 Prius vehicles are affected by the recall, she said.
Also Tuesday, Toyota subsidiary Hino Motors Ltd. recalled 1,913 trucks across five 2004-05 models, also due to engine problems.
Hino said defective engine brackets could break under pressure, causing the trucks' engines to stall. The recall affects Hino's Dutro model, as well as Dyna and Toyoace trucks manufactured by Hino and sold under the Toyota brand.
The engines of an additional 10,310 Toyota and Hino trucks manufactured in 2003-05 may have faulty turbine blades, the two companies said.
The trucks will be repaired for free though the fault isn't serious enough to meet Japan's recall standards, according to Hashimoto.
The recalls come after police investigated three Toyota officials on suspicion of professional negligence in allegedly shirking recalls for eight years and not fixing a defect that may have caused an accident.
Five people were injured in a crash in 2004 in southern Japan when steering failed in a 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf sport utility vehicle, causing it to swing out of control. Toyota had received five reports of problems with the steering by 1996, but no recall was made until 2004, the company said.
The investigation was another embarrassment for Toyota, whose once impeccable image has been tarnished by a number of recalls.
Earlier this month, the company recalled 367,500 Toyota and Lexus sport utility vehicles in the U.S. because a piece in the front console area could come loose and interfere with the gas pedal.
Toyota has been reporting booming sales in recent years and is growing so rapidly some analysts expect it to overtake struggling General Motors Corp. of the U.S. as the world's biggest automaker in coming years.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
A few years ago they had trouble with some V6 engines as well, also an oil related problem.
Post Edited (Jul 18, 12:18pm)
A:
Yup, I remember that Hybrid.If I remember correctly it was the engine in their minivans. I was selling Pontiacs at that time and had that article about the Toyota engine problmes posted on my wall so that all my potential customers could see it!!! LOL
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
Nissan just recalled about 100,000 sentras and altimas for engine problems. No carmaker is immune.
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81 ZXT 2+2
http://www.strausz.us/zcar/turboswap/
A:
This is interesting news because it is such a rare thing for Toyota - not the case for many US manufacturers.
1993 300zx NA
A:
My wife has a 2001 Echo.
I would imagine I just call the stealership and find out what VINs were affected?
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1990 300zx NA
- Custom Exhaust
- JWT Pop Charger
A:
Quote:
This is interesting news because it is such a rare thing for Toyota - not the case for many US manufacturers.
toyota keeps most of its recalls under wraps. Or, in a lot of cases, flat out denys the problem. They still havent claimed any responsibility whatsoever for the 7m headgasket problems.
McAdam
1980 280zx with a mildly ported N47 maxima head, 60mm TB, -C- stamp 256 degree camshaft, and a 2.5inch mandrel bent exhaust. yeah, its quick, and yeah, its a 2+2. NOW with MSandS_E power!
A:
They all have recalls, you can't make multiple hundreds of thousands of something and not expect to have some errors or at least imperfections.
The Toyota V6 3.0 they ran in the pickups and maybe others had head problems as well. I know a guy who got a whole new engine due to this recall, I never heard anything about it until I started asking how the 3.0L hold up compared to the 22R's
Matt
A:
Yeah I had an 86 Supra and when it only had 50,000 miles it poured oil from a rear head gasket leak.
I hated that car. I had always wanted a Supra cause I like dthe way they looked but it turned out to be a rough riding piss poor handling car. I kept it a year and sold it for a Honduh CRX for the wife.
Toyota makes good cars but they aren't nearly as good in reality as most people seem to think.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
They are already preparing a merging of corporate cultures for when they buy GM!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
You are talking out of a position of bizzare ignorance making that statement!
EVERY carmaker has THOUSANDS of programs and goodwill adjustments to vehicles it produces.
The RECALL relates to a SERIOUS item, and something not normally possible to handle internally, or LEGALLY it rises to a standard that the government regulations require owners to be notified.
Thing is, most items on Toyotas are so minor, they are legally and ethically handled under normal maintenance programs.
And this is the point, RECALLS for Toyota are LESS than the corporate average, overall.
Everyone in the industry knows that Toyota makes sh*tty exhaust manifolds, and they routinely replace them under warranty up to 100K miles. That's not a recall, that's service parts support.
Funny thing is, if you go to an INDEPENDENT GARAGE in many cases they will not tell you to go back to Toyota for a repair under warranty, they will buy the part and charge you for it, and for installing it!
Luckily Toyota knows they make sh*tty exhaust manifolds, and have really worked to keep the costs down so if people do go ex-works for their maintenance repairs, they don't get raped for a part they know they will need replaced.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
I remember driving along the freeway with my brother once and pulled over to the side was this Toyota with the hood up and smoke coming out of the engine compartment. And this woman dancing around and trying to flag someone down. My bro, who happens to have a fire extinguisher in the car (he briefly had a job recharging them so always had extras) pulls over and starts singing "You asked for it, you got it — Toyota" (remember that?) So anyway, he gets out with the extinguisher and the woman is going "Over here, over here. put it out!" Doug says, "I'll put it out, but you have to pay for recharging this extinguisher." She says "Of course, yes, just do it!" So he fooshes it on and puts the fire out, but of course a bunch of stuff is wasted. But now because "it won't start" (her quote) and because he'd gotten all this white junk all over everything, she wouldn't pay him the $10! And we wouldn't give her a ride. What a beach.
'76 280Z driver, '75 parts car
A:
I meant to say that all of the toyota commericals about quality, reliability and good build quality have been drilled into us for so many years that people think they are better vehicles than they actually are. They have a really good PR department. Thats why people think its shocking to hear about something like this, when its really S.O.P. for any automaker, even the mighty toyota.
the reality is that toyota has its share of engine problems. there are now several petitions online to get toyota to step up and take responsibility for thier crappy engines. 1 for seinna minivan engines coking up & one for the 7m fiasco.
It just seems that when something goes wrong in nissan land, they own up and replace it (although with some issues, it takes a while). in the news, papers, magazines, whatever. but if something goes wrong with toyota, they try and sweep it under the rug or just flat out ignore it and blame it on improperly maintained vehicles.
McAdam
1980 280zx with a mildly ported N47 maxima head, 60mm TB, -C- stamp 256 degree camshaft, and a 2.5inch mandrel bent exhaust. yeah, its quick, and yeah, its a 2+2. NOW with MSandS_E power!
A:
Sitting at the Arco Station at Crenshaw and something, and this BMW 6 or 7 series pulls up to the light and it starts smoking.
Profusely.
It is on fire. I pick up my extingusiher from the work truck, and hang up the celphone.
It is kitty corner from the fire department, and out they come a-running with an AXE!
Start whacking through the hood near where the latch would be on a Chevy or a Ford. As I approach, the Firedude gives his best "Stay clear of the area, sir, we're professionals" line. I look at the lady as these two macho firemonkeys are trying to LIFT THE HOOD and then go back to hacing from UNDERNEATH with the axe again.
I look at her and say "Do you want that fire out before the fuel lines burn through and you loose the whole engine?" Shes panic stricken and is hysterically shouting "put it out put it out" so I walk towards the vehicle, push the Firemonkey aside with a rude comment, calmly stick my hand IN THE OPEN DRIVERS SIDE DOOR WINDOW and PULL THE HOOD LATCH.
Even with all the mauling, the thing slid forward about 6 inches like on magnetic suspension rails and the hood clamsheeled open.
I shoot my Illegal HALON fire extingusiher all over the pooled gasoline on the manifold, and it flashed up again. So I shot it again.
It goes out. Chief Fire Monkey says "that extinguishant is illegal!".
I turned around to the lady, handed her my business card, and said "If you sue these idiots for interfering with me stopping your fire with a non-residue fire extinguisher, you don't have to pay for my refill!"
As I walked away, the two monkeys with the axe were still gawking at the way the hood opened, like the dudes at the beginning of 2001 (the BMW was, of course, Black!)
My fire extingusiher story.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Statistically, the numbers bear out Toyota is still the best.
This is where people with no higher math get confused.
Example:
GM had 78% market share. 78% of all vehicles in a shop on any given day are GM. Shop owner says "all we work on is GM's, GM builds sh*t.
Wrong, you have the most out there, even with a 1% failure rate, that is an astronomical number to repair.
Example 2:
Pick any number of any vehcile recall. It looks big. Hundreds of thousands.
Retrospecitvely, though, with several million vehicles produced EACH YEAR, and tens of millions on the road, it's statistically a very small number.
They advertise their statistics. GM, wuality wise in mean defects per thousand vehicles, is where Toyota was 10 or 15 years ago.
The problem is once you run Kaizen and SPC Programs for 20+ years, the delta percentage of product improvement you see is diminishing.
You are talking about sh*tty engines with head gaskets that blow.
You are too young to remember STEERING WHEELS THAT COME OUT OF COLUMNS WHEN DRIVING.
ENGINES THAT FALL OUT OF VEHCILES.
100% failure rates on Transmissions (yeah, EVERY ONE FAILED)
What is happening is consumers GOT USED TO TOYOTA QUALITY and now ANY defect is perceived as serious or a big thing.
BMW has the 'Damocles' enigne in the M3's---puts warnings on it not to free-rev the engine or serious damage will result. Engine has the ability to rev so fast it will pump it's small oil sump dry before the oil has a chance to drain back from the head.
A 1966 VW would do that with an 1835 kit and a lightened flywheel---but it only had a 2.5 qt sump.
No, consumers are spoiled these days, and the internet gives them a chance to congregate and kvetch about how terrible they have it.
Let them buy a 1973 Gremlin and drive IT off the lot NEW and see what REAL problems were like!
As for driver or owner improper maintenance, that is more of a factor than any owner will like to admit. Nissan's DISTRIBUTOR screwed me on their Battery Warranty. Obviously the guy NEVER checked the battery in THREE YEARS. My wife's truck, taken in every 3K miles to the selling dealer for their maintenance service. EVERY TIME service ticket shows the battery eletrolyte level was checked and or topped up. When the car died and stranded my wife, I looked at the battery, not a single scratch on the battery covers. DRY TO BELOW THE PLATES! Denied it "they all only last 36 months". I got screwed, never went back. Wrote letter to Dealer Principal. To this day they still send me letters and deals trying to get me to come back to the dealership because that service money is SWEET, man!
Screw em, they lost me, I take my money elsewhere.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Jul 18, 5:02pm)
A:
Thanks Tony. I always thought my brother's fire extinguisher story was good, but yours is priceless. LOL
'76 280Z driver, '75 parts car
A:
toyota sucks
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
I have a 00 Echo and like driving it a lot. It has had more nuisance problems than anyother Toyota I have owned but it is still peppy, tough and reliable.
- driver window scissors don't work right and window does not seal unless messed with.
- MAF hot wire gets gunky and stops working right MPG and power go down (carb cleaner maintenance)
- plastic on ashtray sliders broke
- rear deck speaker wire ripped from bobbin when packing camping equipment
- AC just got weak
- PS pump bearings failed (not toyota part but this fault disappointed me)
Still gets ~ 46mpg (imperial) @ ~180,000km, drives smooth, handles well, seats very comfortable, great visibility, tight turning radius, and I can carry 10' boards inside! looks like a sword swallower when I stick them in the trunk.
Injector Cleaning Service
THE FREE ONLINE INDEPENDENT Z STORE
Email me to add your product
A:
oh, I know about crappy cars. One of my freinds was into Fieros. he actually had the plate that went on the center console that said "without proper maintainence this car could burst into flames" or something along those lines. I know we have come a long way and cars are MUCH better than they were 15 or 20 yrs ago, but the fact remains, **** like this still happens.
Do some research on the seinna engine sludge problem. Toyota denied an engine replacement after something lik 40K EVEN THO the consumer had receipts proving oil changes at factory scheduled times. Problem was, they were not at a toyota dealership, so appearently, they dont count. BS. If oil in an engine cokes up and turns to sludge after only 40K, that says design flaw.
My point still stands. Toyota still has defects and recalls just like every manufacturer out there. sure, the frequency might be less, but the fact remains that crap like this still happens.
McAdam
1980 280zx with a mildly ported N47 maxima head, 60mm TB, -C- stamp 256 degree camshaft, and a 2.5inch mandrel bent exhaust. yeah, its quick, and yeah, its a 2+2. NOW with MSandS_E power!
A:
How can they state they expect Toyota be be making more sales than GM in the future if they cant even build cars properly to meet demand? If I owned a Toyota that was covered in that recall I'd be selling it!
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
No company is immune from defects. When it happens to a very big successful company, a lot of people jump in excitment to put that company down.
Whether you like it or not, Toyota will still sell more vehicles with less defects/recalls than the brand you like. Face it and admit it, Toyota make better shiiit.
...and I'm a Bimmer/Nissan fan.
********************
1975 280Z (Stock)
303 Emerald Green
A:
You wanna see recalls?
Wait for the GM/Renault/Nissan alliance.
Everyone sharing the same parts,(defects).
If you really want to know about recall coverups check out Mitsubishi's past history!
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Mitsubishi is a joke, I cant even fit in them damn things lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
#4 on the list of recallers from what I read.......
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C
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I dont think it's the amount of recalls that's the issue, it's the severity of the recalls that makes this more dangerous. When faults can possibly cause deaths, and initiates police investigations before official recalls are announced something is a miss!
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
"I'd rather have a Hornet!" Norm K
Norman Krell
A:
'If oil in an engine cokes up and turns to sludge after only 40K, that says design flaw. '
Yeah, tell that to Ford after the Arco Graphite started seizing up 460 engines beause it turned to unpumpable jelly below 180 degrees F.
Funny, Arco took that off the market quite quickly, and quite quietly.
Oil CHEAP oil can sludge up in ANY engine. If you think sludge formation is a design flaw, a lot of my respect for your intelligence has dropped out the window on that one- that statement shows a very limited understanding of how things work within a crankcase.
You take a car in North Dakota, drive it for five minutes in the morning, and five minutes in the evening between the beginning of January till the end of Febuary, and I GAR-UN-TEE you will have SLUDGE FORMATION in that engine, NO MATTER WHO MAKES IT!
As far as oil changes go, the Mangunson-Moss Warranty Act of 1974 (?)states as long as the factory recomended intervals are followed, there is no requirement for the consumer to use factory authorized technicians to do the maintenance. And if the factory claims filters (non oem) were the cause for a problem, they must prove it.
If the services required by the warranty period are not performed by the manufacturer FOR FREE, they can not hold you to using their services for maintenance in regards to warranty. This is how Jiffy Lube blossomed in the mid 70's. Before that time, the OEM's would routinely deny warranty claims because you went to Joe's corner shop.
Ever wonder why BMW offers those free service packages with all the new cars? Someone takes it to Jiffy Lube, and the Damoclese engine seizes, they can legally deny a warranty claim on it BECAUSE the scheduled services are offered FREE OF CHARGE by BMW during the warranty period!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
" MAF hot wire gets gunky and stops working right MPG and power go down (carb cleaner maintenance)"
Check for leaks in the intake ducting, the hot wire burn off circuit may not be working properly as well.
But really, WTF, minor things and several you broke.
My BRAND NEW 1980 Chevette did the following:
Mile Zero, traded in a perfectly good 1974 Bronco with a 302 and Auto Trans on a shiny new off-the-lot Maroon Metalling Chevette because of a weekly commute of 600 miles (300 miles each way) weekly just won't hack it in a Bronco getting 12mpg.
1800 miles, lost rear main seal, started dumping oil out the back of the engine, onto the exhaust passers by alerted us before a fire started. Trans pulled, seal replaced under warranty.
3000 miles, during oil change, guys says oil seemed diluted, says to watch it---notice gas mileage is lower but dealer says it's still 'breaking in'.
3500 miles, Diaphragm on Fuel pump fails while driving down freeway. Fills crankcase with fuel, diluting oil. Alerted by passer's by to smoke out back (at night, both times, of course!) Stop and get towed to dealership.
They pull tranny again (under warranty) and replace rear main seal, replace fuel pump and install GASKET between block and pump. Replaced clutch disc, resurfaced flywheel.
4500 miles, engine starts making a ticking noise.
5000 miles, tick turns to knock. Dealer is dumbfounded. Warranty bottom end bearings and crank replacement.
10 WEEKS OWNERSHIP MILESTONE PASSES (600 miles round trip each week, plus short drive to work daily adds up the miles!)
7000 miles, the radio stops working. Windshield developed leak about the same time. Wait two months for AM/FM/CASSETTE to get in. Windshield is glooped with black stuff in attempt to seal leak. Long drives start to suck heavily.
8000 miles, driver's window fell inside door, out of tracks. Warranty repair. Didn't keep the inside from getting deluged, though. Seat Belt is not retracting all the time, and is now getting regularly slammed in the door because of it.
9000 miles during oil change, find trans oil low, back of car is covered in gear oil. Warranty replacement of TRANSMISSION rear main seal. Gas mileage is dropping, Carburetor is rebuilt under warranty.
9200 miles smell gas going down freeway, find a plug out on the carb, pumping gas all over the manifold. Dealer did something and we filled out a lot of paperwork on that one. My dad was P.O. and about had it with the car.
10,000 miles, Transmission seal failed again, dealer replaces TRANSMISSION! O.K., maybe we got a lemon my dad starts looking at other cars as the WARRANTY is starting to run out (12 months, 12,000 miles)
11,000 miles, alternator takes a dump. Warranty replacment. Dad trades it in on a slow moving but still on the lot "last years model clearance" 1980 Chevy LUV 4X4.
In 38,000 miles of me beating the living hell out of that thing, I managed to get the shift fork in the tranny to bend from my own ignorance, and blew out the muffler downshifting with an AIR system on it.
Other than that, the thing was the truck that wouldn't die. Not a single problem at all.
Then again, one was produced in America, one was made in Japan....
Formative years to look an learn.
The 1977 Impala we had dropped #6 exhaust valve when we started the engine one day after school at 41,000 miles. The transmission went out before 50K in the same vehicle.
Yeah sludge in an engine is a SERIOUS "manufacturing defect" (Rolls Eyes)
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
"Warranty Claims Stacked on the Filing Cabinets"
Mitsubishi is the japanese manufacturer you are thinking of, McAdam, not Toyota!
Someone scratched my brain there, and it came to me!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
THIS is what Im talking about. Why couldnt you just search for toyota oil sludge on google instead of coming on here and insulting my intelligence? and THIS is a small sampling of whats going on.
millions of people use crappy oil every day and you dont see any other petitions online for a single manufacturer to recall an engine because of oil sludge problems. Oils produced today are better than the synthetics of yesteryear.
McAdam
1980 280zx with a mildly ported N47 maxima head, 60mm TB, -C- stamp 256 degree camshaft, and a 2.5inch mandrel bent exhaust. yeah, its quick, and yeah, its a 2+2. NOW with MSandS_E power!
Post Edited (Jul 18, 11:16pm)
A:
I never ONCE said that toyota was on the top of the heap as far as recalls go. What I DID say was that toyota has its problems and that they are not as perfect of a manufacturer as their PR department would like you to think.
PLUS, when they have MAJOR problems, they tend to blame thier consumers and not own up to it!
THATS all I was saying.
McAdam
1980 280zx with a mildly ported N47 maxima head, 60mm TB, -C- stamp 256 degree camshaft, and a 2.5inch mandrel bent exhaust. yeah, its quick, and yeah, its a 2+2. NOW with MSandS_E power!
A:
3200 owners complained?
"Oil analyses of some owners' engine oil reveal low viscosity and high nitration and oxidation within the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval. "
So if Toyota changes the RECOMENDED INTERVAL to 1500 miles, what is anybody to do?
Common freakin' sense tells you if the engine is sludging up, CHANGE THE OIL MORE FREQUENTLY!
This is why manufacturers will not change ANYTHING in a models' production run claiming 'product continuing improvements', because if they do, LAWYERS will crucify them over the 'defective prior condition'.
This doesn't look like EVERY vehicle in a model year run, nor does it look like anything all that difficult to solve. But people unite, and start screaming because they get sludge in the engine.
Don't change the oil, the manual says change it at 3K, and I refuse to change it more often, DAMMIT!
Just because my redline is 6000 doesn't mean I can stick the car in second and drive 90 mph everywhere and claim "latent defect" when the engine blows prematurely.
I can remember people carping that it was unacceptable that they had to change the oil AT ALL in their cars, and that if it had to be done, IT SHOULD BE PROVIDED FREE!
You want to talk about sludge? Chevy V8 during the winter, -40, short runs. Pull the valve covers and you got black jelly in the form of the cover.
My brother once tried to blame the mechanic who last worked on his Honda's engine because it belw while he was doing 110 mph with only 1.5 quarts of oil in the engine. "He should have checked it" during a routine brake inspection. 6 months earlier.
This, apparently is the typical American car owner.
You guys are all spoiled, buy a car outside the USA and see what you get in the way of dealer/distributor support and after-sale warranty procedures.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Seems Ford had tire failures on Explorers in Saudi Arabia long before we had them here in the USA.
And then when they did start occurring, they started in the Desert Southwest.
Where you are, determines what happens to your car.
I would be very interested to see the statistics on the oil "breakdown" by geographic regions.
They cover so many differing issues in that letter (many of them caused by diametrically opposite causes) it's worthless.
It's an amalgam catch-all beyotch letter by non-automotive people smashing regional problems into a prospective class-action lawsuit---that's what it is, nothing more.
I went back to check on some stuff, and sure enough that trusty 1980 Chevette we had ended up with THREE RECALLS ON IT.
One for the Seat Belt Retractors, One for the Fuel leak on the carburettor, and a SECOND one on fuel leaks at the carburettor.
Thing is, there were ENOUGH people out there that had the SAME problem REGARDLESS of geographic location that there was a NHTSA Recall initiated. THREE TIMES! We experienced both items.
There is a difference between something that is a problem that requires engineering support to solve, and something that is Recall-Worthy.
This is FAR less severe than other things I can think of, and again --- statistically, the numbers are still on Toyota's side compared to any other manufacturer.
What I'm getting at is recalls are more for the "100% failure" type of thing, not a 33% of the owners (or 3%---not sure on the production numbers on this particular gripe) type thing.
And the Domestics STILL lead with the 100% failure type of fu*kups. Far less frequent with Toyota. They are jus tgrowing so fast, things are falling behind.
Like I said before, they are aligning their quality to more synergistically operate with their new GM division...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Jul 18, 11:29pm)
A:
Tony D -
When you catch your breath - tell me about the 1973 Gremlin.
'73 Grem. was the only new car I ever bought - I don't remember any real problems new but I do remember bringinf it in for a scheduled maintenance and complained about it only getting 18 mpg.
The repairman brought over the assitant manager an two other mechanics and then said -
"Son, tell us how you got that good a milage outa that car?"
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
Toyota is the largest vehicle producer for 2006 to date, (unofficial industry estimate). When you get this big, some things happen. But their product 'concerns' are much lower than industry averages.
Much lower than Nissan.
Buy what you like, or buy from what Consumer Reports rates the best. Maybe those two converge on somthing you like.
Recalls may show a proactive manufacturer/distributor attitude.
(not all recalls are safety related, all mandated ones are)
Or, a lousy engineering department.
Or the results of the cheapest parts vendor.
Or a political agenda against a certain manufacturer.
Or as one of my old bosses used to say; "an opportunity to sell other service or a new vehicle while the customer is at the dealership".
Or just bad mojo and it's now their turn to take a few hits.
Getting too glib about anothers faults leaves you open for the wrath of karma.
I've been witness to it too many times.
Most issues are handled case by case. 3200 folks upset with a 2J motor is miniscule compared to the numbers of engines produced. As I remember, Toyota made many goodwill adjustments to repairs of these motors. No recall is necessary as long as there is not a safety issue and the manufacturer has lived up to the expressed and implied warranties as spelled out by federal and state laws.
Hyundai extended their warranties to try and convince consumers that their cars are reliable. It has worked. Their 'quality'ratings are now high not because of extended warranties but major quality improvements,(or at least the perception).
I own a Toyota truck. It has the usual Toyota issues, but overall is boringly reliable. This is what sells vehicles. The perceptions.
I own a Chevy. reliable driveline but annoying issues that are not properly corrected long term by consistent/correct repairs. I will never buy another Chevy.
Perceptions.
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Of (sorry) ugly styling, and a hodgepodge of cars. Anything AMC made in the early 70's was just plain odd, and had "quirks" in it specific to the suppliers.
GM Steering, Ford Engines, GM trannies, all kinda stirred together in a chassis made by another company.
I was trying to use something outside the "big three" (called that for a reason) so as to make an obscure reference to cars that were dismal sales failures.
My stories are more on target in my detailing the 1980 Chevette and it's travails.
The Gremlins I knew of were 10 years old by the time they got to us, and by then they were far bigger POS's than most of the VW and Japanese stuff.
I mean, would you rather have a 1973 Toyota Corolla, or a 1973 Gremlin.
I can warrant you, the "ownership experience" back in the day was far better for the average Toyota owner (for the first 15 years of ownership) than it was for the average Gremlin owner. I worked in a Chevy distributorship during that timeframe (early 80s) and can tell you I saw and experienced firsthand the "Five Year Window" everyone talked about. That was the time period where all the stuff factory installed would fail, be replaced, and THEN-----after five years of ownership hell, the car would be RELIABLE AND TROUBLE FREE LONG TERM. This was the quandary: why buy a NEW Chevy, when one that was 5 years old was all shaken down and dead-reliable?
Such was not usually the case with Japanese Cars. They worked out of the box, and long term were a better ownership experience.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
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toyota is a great car maker mcadam is not saying they arent and yes shlt happens and toyota never recalled any of there supra especially being there top sports car hmmmm nto coool...... but I honeslty hated the 7mgte problem in the supra almost every supra I see sold as is wow $300 clean body low mileage no problems ahuh sure HEad gasket and the thing is its also related to water pump mechanics only go ahead and replace the headgasket and resurface head! ahhh
71 240zT~soft top~swatisca rims~walbro 255 ~MBC~2.5"DP/3"ex~supra IC~summit Rad~~r200 3.54/cvs~RSX Seats~AM gauges My Auctions
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Is that the grammar being taught in schools today?
1993 300zx NA