A&Q about 350Z
Q:
I did a search but all that seemed to come up were posts about repair shops. Has anyone here built their own shop and what tips can you pass along?
Basically, I'd like a four-car storage/work/restoration shop with:
30 x 50 in size
electric overhead or barn style door
plumbing for a modest bathroom
enough height to put in a loft one day
a few windows and maybe opaque skylight panels
I'm a first-rate noob at this sort of thing but I'd love to purchase a kit, have the foundation poured and build it up myself. I'd just like some comments like, "30 x 50 is too small for 4 cars", or "You'll regret it if you don't...." I will probably use local companies (Edmond,OK) as much as possible.
Thanks for any info, and something LIKE this would be cool:
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'74 260Z
'88 300ZX GLL
A:
'Fergit' the snow, Randy! Whatever size you settle on, double it!
JR in Tulsa (4EVER Z)
73 240Z - L28, Triple Miks, 5 speed, 3.9.
83 stock 280ZX
Chaos, panic, and disorder---my work here is done!
A:
I woulnt use wood. Ive seen WAY too many thousands of dollars get lost over wood, VS, metal.
Lots of Z cars, 1970's-1983's.
1977, Megasquirt, 12.8@ 105, 1.70 60 Foot, 2940 LBS. Blake Machine Co, Phx, AZ http://bandmzcars.com http://blakemachineprojects.com http://www.zselect.com
A:
Built my 27x36 shop, with a 8x12 storage room on one corner and one 12' roll up door in the center of the 36' side. Has 3 windows, a sink, fridge, gas heat, air(110 and 220V), A/C ready, air lines on each wall, 110V receptacles every 3' at 24" AND 48" (above and below the benches). Did everything but finish the concrete, shingles, and vinyl myself with my dad. Wish I had the room to double it in size.
Hint If you want a 30x50, build a 30x70. You will not regret it. By the time you strip down a couple of Z's your 30x50 has turned into a 20x20 with a narrow walkway down the center.
Check with your local Building inspector or court house and find out exactly what you will need to get before you start. My county recently required you have a permit for the foundation, one for the building, one for plumbing, and one for electrical. Tony D had some good posts a year or so ago that documented his California experience.
I drew out the shop on 6 sets of graph paper. One for the exterior, one for the overhead view, and one for each inside wall. Measure a full size truck, not a Z, and multiply it by 4, and that is how much room you need UNOCCUPIED. My cousin built a shop, then decided to add a work bench on the back wall, and now cannot park his truck in the shop and close the doors.
I work on cars, metal fabrication, and fine furniture woodworking in my shop (all at the same time) so I made it adaptable. I have 1/2" PVC run throughout the shop for air lines at each door, on each wall, and dropping out of the ceiling all coming from two compressors stored in my parts room. On one wall I have Cable TV from the house(Race watching), phones, fridge, and sink for cooking. Intercom/paging system from the house is nice. Tool boxes and cabinets for storage on the opposite wall, and still have room to back my race car trailer in and close the doors.
Electrical Requirements: Get a 200 amp service box from Lowes or Home Depot that can handle at least 20 breakers. Put each wall on an individual breaker, as well as the lights, A/C, welder, etc. Better safe than sorry. I currently have a small storage bldg. and my greenhouse running out of my shop and can weld all day with everything on in the shop with no problem.
EDIT: If you are not building it out of metal, run two or three rows of cement block on the base of the walls. That way the wood is well away from the splashing of rain water, termites, etc. and it gives you additional height . My ceiling is right at 10'. I can literally jack a motor up on the I beam mounted in the ceiling, lift it up, and roll the car under it with 2' to spare.
1983 280ZX N/A: 98% rust free, 118,000 actual miles.
1982 280ZX Turbo. $250 Parts car that was better than the rustbucket.
1983 280ZX Turbo. Hopeless rust case. The more I fixed, the more I found.
Post Edited (Jul 11, 7:49pm)
A:
definately try to incorporate a "pit" into the concrete. A buddy of mine has one in his shop, and it is a class A life saver. Just like 7 food deep pit, with a couple stairs and heavy wood covers on the top. pretty primative, but it gets the job done.
if you're gonna pour concrete anyway, thats the one thing i would try to put in.
1975 280z
High School senior project
Daniel D.
A:
All this is great, but how about telling the guy to get a kickass alarm? He's gonna spend all this time and money on stuff and then get broken into and have it all stolen lol Get the best alarm money can buy, you wont regret it in the long run. Power tools are hot items and are one of the most commonly stolen things from private properties. Get everything ID tagged for tracing purposes and make sure you get the very best locks and doors.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
Awesome gang, I'm keeping a binder on this project and this is good stuff. Keep it coming.....
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'74 260Z
'88 300ZX GLL
A:
Forget the pit, spend the money on a lift!
I would get the MX-10ACX for $2365 delivered to your door.
http://www.asedeals.com/two_post_lift_specs.html
Make sure you build your garage door high enough to clear your lift when the door is rolled up.
Heating and Air Conditioning. I'm from Edmond, OK and I know how the summers and winters get.
I brought that knowledge with me to Cali. and have a 220v window AC unit installed in my garage wall and I'm taking delivery of a 75k BTU natural gas heater tomorrow.
I have a 9" garage door and 10" ceiling. I can open the roll up door with a car up on the lift and it clears with no problem.
Get power and air in every corner. As mentioned, get a 200 amp breaker box and make sure you can get 200 amp service from your cities power provider.
I have auto-retractable power cords in each corner and one overhead.
220v plugs for the Clothes Dryer, A/C, Welder, Plasma Cutter and Lift with 110v plugs everywhere for everything else.
You can't over buy on a good 2 stage compressor! Don't get a single stage oil-less compressor. You'll regret it! The two stage compressors generate a fraction of the noise. If your compressor is in the garage, your ears will appreciate the decision you made. I made the mistake of getting a single stage at first and it lasted about 1 month before the noise irritated my wife enough that she was ok with buying another (BIGGER!) one.
Get the biggest compressor you can afford. Make sure the flow rate will support what you want to use it for. The large tank, cheap compressors have a miserable flow rate. Don't use 1/4" fittings. Use 3/8" where-ever possible. When you start to enjoy your pneumatic tools, you'll be glad you did.
Get retractable hose reels in convenient locations. I have two 50" retractable hose reels in the front two corners by the garage door, a 25" retractable hose reel in another corner by the side door and a 25" retractable hose reel hanging from the ceiling.
Even though I only have a 2 car garage with benches along both walls, I can get two cars in if I get one up on the lift and park another one underneath!
Oh wait, I'm on an earthquake fault... maybe not that's not such a good idea!
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
" or '? ;}
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'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
Here's a link for folks building a garage-mahal.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/
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1982 280zx
A:
First things first, concrete is expensive. Before you poor you need to figure out what you're going to have in the shop. I would recommend a lift as was stated above. If going this route you need to pour at least 6 inches of concrete to support it. Harbor freight has some lifts that are fairly cheap or you could look around at local auto shops. When the dealerships get new ones they practically throw the old ones away. Nothing wrong with them, they're just used and might need some hydrolic hoses or something.
Also on pouring concrete make sure they use a fiber mix AND rebar. It makes for a very strong floor that you will never have to worry about. After it's cured paint it. Use some of that cement floor epoxy and do two coats minimum. A single coat just isn't thick enough, I know from experience. Well that's I can think of for now.
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77 280Z - TEC3 Engine Management, Coil Packs, 3.1 Stroker, 550CC injectors, tripple throttle body FI intake, MSA Stage II Cam, etc...etc...
79 Fairlady - Rusty
81 280ZX - DD
A:
A friend of mine restored a 67 Chevelle in basically a tiny 1 car garage.
He finally built a brand new garage. After it was done he was most impressed of his choice to insulate the hell out of it in the walls and the ceilings...you can go in there in 80 degree weather and it is COOL inside..of course that was Kansas so he still needed a good window A/C and central heat...
He keeps all storage in a separate Lowes type storage shed right next door...I think 1 fast Z is right I would make it metal and not wood...
Also my friend has one side of the garage with long strip lights installed along the WALL with the normal lights up above......it makes an amazing difference in lighting...with the extra side lighting...
Id definitely do the security thing and put a hidden camera and video system linked wirelessly to your house so if someone did break in you could the catch the bastards...and TELL NO ONE about it...usually it will be a "friend" or someone that knows a friend that will rip you off..
And the air compressor...if I could afford it and was doing the same thing I would get the best I could find and afford...
good work bench of course and all the other goodies...a lift would be like heaven...
I think if you changed your search criteria on Google you would find a lot more ideas...sometimes you have to really dig deep...
1976 280z 2+2 - Risen from the dead - garaged since 1988. Pallnet Fuel Rail and guage - ES rack and front bushings - 260Z 4Speed - Arizona Z Car Clutch - H4 Lights - Lots more to come...
Post Edited (Jul 12, 5:25am)
A:
Most points seem covered.
You may want to consider adding ventalation fans and maybe a fume extraction solution or such where you weld, use paints and solvents, or media blasting. Also those exhaust extension hoses to pipe an idling car's exhaust outside is nice.
Lots of light sockets above too. Especially if you plan to paint. I think the new "day light" bulbs would be good.
You may also consider making a shower curtain-like structure for surrounding an area for painting or blasting. Have a look at the extruded curtain guides on the ceilings in hospitals.
don't forget the beer fridge, old couch and tv for when the buddy's drop by.
Safety:
first aid, phone (accessable from floor), extinguishers, CO and fire detectors
Injector Cleaning Service
THE FREE ONLINE INDEPENDENT Z STORE
Email me to add your product
A:
Naviathan is right; don't underestimate the cost of concrete. My neighbor
excavated an area about 20' x 24', layed the rebar himself, rented a compactor for crushed stone, used a friend for finishing, and it still ran about $5K.
***I liked the idea someone mentioned in the past about installing a couple of hooks in the concrete to use whenever you had to staighten something out.
Garages get kinda messy and I always tho't following someone else's idea
would be good until I ended up in the city, where no drainage grates are allowed across the front if you ever wanted it hose/mop out. Maybe in the country you could get away with it, but in that case, one course of concrete block around the perimeter would make cleaning easier.
I'm really concerned about a couple of plastic skyligths I have in one garage and thought, damn, I should span some barbwire under those,
but I'd probably get nailed if firefighters ever had to enter that way!
'73 240z, sitting 16 years in garaged storage...Spring 2005 endeavor...
Twin Cities, Mn
A:
As I thought, you guys hit on points I hadn't even thought about. The floor jigs/hooks are a great idea. I'll put all these posts in my binder o'fun and visit the websites mentioned.
Great forum, and thanks again everyone.
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'74 260Z
'88 300ZX GLL
A:
blue's right, safety equipment that is all accesible from the floor:) and think about mounting some lasers up for when people try to distract you.
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
A:
a pit? they have too nice of lifts out now to do a pit.
A:
wow, yea if you can get a good lift for under $3k, do it!
thats awesome....didn't know you could get them as *cheap* as that.
1975 280z
High School senior project
Daniel D.
A:
If the shop will be located in a cold weather enviroment, and not heated/cooled full time, you will need to stay away from standard florescent shop lights, they flicker in cold weather.
-insulate the hell out of the shop walls, and ceiling to keep humidity, and dampness to a minimum.
-put way more wall outlets in the walls than you originally think to keep from having to run extension cords all over.
-install separate fuses for different areas, and major tools in the shop in the electrical box.
-install a phone line, and an intercom system to the house to keep from running in the house while dirty.
-A floor lift is very expensive while a pit with a cover costs no more than the extra concrete, and bracing. Also a bit safer than a lift with no moving parts.
-Go with metal barn siding, and roof for a nearly belletproof, no fuss 40 year exterior.
-keep all chemicals in a fireproof metal cabinet away from sparks and heat.
-It really is handy to have all your hand power tools in a cabinet hanging on pegs, or in separate drawers.
-put a 10ft overhang on each end of the building to have more outdoor storage that is out of the rain, and sun. I store 10 cords of firewood under one end, and my camper, and woodhauler truck under the other overhang.
-
A:
"Tony D had some good posts a year or so ago that documented his California experience."
P.O. neighbor came up (guy who works at Lowes) and tells me that Riverside County has now TOTALLY BANNED the construction of Metal Buildings in ANY residential development. He is now at $70K on his remodel of his garage to a game room/spare room.
Thought he could convert it, but when he went to get the permit for altering the exterior of his house that is when they told him he HAD to have a garage, since he had one before, and that the rest of the houses are similarly constructed....
Then they told him he HAD to remove the old driveway, and must do so within 90 days.
THEN they told him that he HAD to install a driveway similar to and constructed in the same fashion as others in the neighborhood---so that means for him, a 26foot wide, 70 foot long driveway around to the back yard where he WAS going to put up a simple metal building, two car garage (about $8000-10,000 for the whole thing, turnkey)....
BUT NOOOOOOOOOO!
Poor Bastard Neil has to construct a STICKBUILT garage similar in construction to the house and houses in the area....at a cost of over $20,000!
I was just informed that getting me a 24X24 standalone garage would run me in the same area, around $20K minimum. As long as I'm more than 6 feet away from my existing structure, I don't even have to DRYWALL THE INTERIOR!
WTF? What ever happened to exposed studs in the garage so you can store bottles and crap betwen them? That sh*t is ridiculous.
I wait for my equity to build, when it hits the "F-O Point" that is EXACTLY what I'm going to do: Sell it off, buy in a place with MINIMAL ZONING build what the HELL I WANT, and pay off my cottage cash. Some yuppie idiot will buy this place for stupid money, and it will set me up elsewhere with housing that is paid off and secure.
Screw bureaucratic idiots! Friken fracken ricken rackin...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Put heat in the floor. You will be very comfortable and your feet will thank you. Hot water "in floor" systems are so much better than they used to be.
A:
Tony D, have you researched how much extra value it would put on your property? My dad is looking at building a garage for his hydroplane he's restoring, and the 2 car sized garage was going to cost about $15,000 by the time all the bs was dealt with but it was going to put about $25,000+ onto the value of his house!
Just an idea, might be worth looking into if you haven't already...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
Originally, 300ZXT, I was planning on buying a metal building.
It was a 40X80 Roof, and was a 40 X 60 shop area with a 20 foot overhang for outdoor work on the north end.
That entire building was going to be $25,000. I was to buy the building cash, and finance the balance (another 25-30K).
That was until I found out the PERMIT was $15,500 ALONE.
At that point, I decided my wife's demands for the patio and overhangs on the front and rear of the house (around 20K) were a better idea, because there was NO FREAKING WAY I was paying the county of Riverside $15,500 for the privilege of building ON MY OWN PROPERTY something they would TAX me on IN PERPITUITY!
Value added is irrelevant in this case, BUILDING WHAT THE HELL I DECIDE I WANT is the point! I WANTED a metal building, because the Cost of construction gets you FAR more than ANY stickbuilt building!
The cost at sale is irrelevant, I COULD have taken an equity loan on this place and built the metal building, and STILL had less than 25% of my Equity tied up in improvements. But I'll be damned if I pay off some bureaucrat that kind of money just to build a building that in 75% of the counties in the USA, I DON'T EVEN NEED A PERMIT FOR!
Yeh, in Michigan, that same building's cost of permit would be ZILCH!
The cost for the slab permit in Michigan would have been $40.
The cost for the Electrical and Plumbing Permit would have been another $80 in Michigan.
So instead of building that barn to work in, I put a semi-farmer's porch on the house (full length concrete patio along the whole back of the house) and bought a Vacation Cottage on a Great Lake in Michigan.
Which, in the long run, will appreciate more in the next 20 years? A metal building, or a Cottage on the Lake?
With my zip code up 35% last year in Real Estate value, I don't need the appreciation value of the garage. I just need the garage to work on things.
But I'll be damned if those bastards are going to milk me for that kind of money.
I've worked out another alternative that will "not show on the books" as a valuation for taxation nor resale, but in reality will add similar value to the property. Problem is it will only be 40X40 or 40X30.
I would like more space than that. But at a total permitting cost of <$100, that is a better route IMO. It just won't look as good as that original building.
Ya know, it's so bad in some of these SoCal Yuppified or Wannabe Yuppified Counties, most Metal Building Companies will not even BOTHER quoting you because they don't want the headache dealing with the incompetent local building code people!
FYI, a similar building in rural Sacramento County was erected at about the same time as my projected project. It was a 40X40, and it's permit cost was $300...
$300 I can live with, $3000 I budgeted for (which was 2X the cost when I got my first estimate 7 years earlier)
But in NO WAY was I prepared for the cost of permits to go from $1700 in 1997, to $15,500 in 2004! And to top that off, in January of that coming year (2005) another SUPPLEMENTAL FEE was added that made another $1.69 PER SQUARE FOOT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION assessment!
You do the math, it's calculated by "square footage under the roof" which takes into account NOT footprint, but the footage UNDER the ROOF---meaning if you haf a flat roof, you have a "footprint" assessment, but if you have a peaked roof, they calculate the square footage of EACH roof piece, which is MORE than the total footprint of the building....
Oh yeah, you got me started with an innocent question.... Man, you got NO IDEA how STUPID the requirements for construction here are. You guys think housing is expensive here? And that it's the oil companie's fault for high gas costs----in BOTH cases you are TOTALLY discounting the fact that GOVERNMENT FEES AND TAXES are adding THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to the bill in EACH case!
Hell the federal government makes TWICE what the oil company makes for each gallon sold! In my building's case, the cost of the permit currently would be MORE than the cost of a simple bare-bones building with none of my "Cadillac Features"---my original building cost with one door (instead of the 6 I had ordered) was only $18,250.
$18,250, with a permit of $15,500?
And now the permits would be $23,658, with a bare bones building cost of around $22,780.
Chances are good my building will be ereted in MICHIGAN long before I will EVER build ANYTHING in Cali-fu*king-fornia!
Hell, I can get a compacted gravel base and a 32X40 Pole Barn built from scratch turnkey erected on my pad in Michigan for $9800.............
What sense is there for building anything here? I'll let the LAND appreciate, and use that profit to pay off EVERYTHING ELSE lock, stock, and barrel, and be DONE with payments forever!
Screw the fee-levying bastards!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
My father inlaw is zoning inspector for two townships here in NW Ohio, and deals with granting permits, and doing the follow up checks on the work in progress, and finished buildings.
Most permit fees run less than $100 each, with many of the minor work fees around $20-$30. I believe a new pole barn of the size you mentioned would be in the $250 fee range, but of course we don't have that "location, location, location" so desirable about Southern California.
A:
Yeah those permit fees are disgusting! What about setting up a small business at home, if you dont have already, purely for the purposes of being able to write the garage + the bullsh!t fees off on tax? lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
"Write Off" still means I have to PAY them in the first place.
And thanks to the idiot on the other block, shortly after I was living here the Zoning was changed to stop any more "automotive related" businesses from being opened here.
But remember, those fees mentioned were for RESIDENTIAL/AGRICULTURAL zoning. If I conduct a BUSINESS out of them, then the added expense of having to make it HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE, drywalled and firecoded interior, blah blah blah!
THOUSANDS MORE!!!
My poor neighbor across the street stopped his plans for a retirement house when he found that the permit for a 1400 SqFt house was $10,000 (that was smaller than the Mobile Home he was currently living in!!!).
Instead of paying the permit money, he put in a concrete driveway that cost $14,000 with a remote control gate. Nice 14 foot wide drive over 80 feet to his house, and then between his garage and house he had them pour a 55X36 pad so he can pull behind his house, turn around, and BACK into his garage. He now has a wonderful place to play with his Nova.
He is the guy that got caught building his garage, and had to argue for a MONTH that 2x6's on 12" centers for the roof should be allowed....the IDIOT at plans and permits kept repeating "the code calls for 2x4's on 24" centers".... I mean, short of submitting a certified engineer's drawing and load calculations that showed that a 2x6 roof with 12" centers was actually STRONGER (and therfore should LOGICALLY be permitted) WTF do you do with idiots like THAT? They actually wanted him to TEAR THE WHOLE THING DOWN and use their standard plans with 2X4 walls (instead of the 2X6's he used) and 2X4 Roof Rafters!!!
And to top it off, because he said he wanted to make it a "garage/workshop" he ended up having to totally finish the "workshop area" with drywall and have al this lighting and B.S. installed.
Nope, can't just have saws in your garage, you gotta have a drywall firebreak to save that equipment should one of your cars spontaneously ignite!!!
Idiots, idiots that add nothing to anything but costs. Put them all at the edge of a cliff, line up the machine guns and.....
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Dottering old fools in training.
A:
Time to move? lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project