A&Q about 350Z
Q:
i just completed a lot of work on a buddy's 280zx. in the past, after he tells me the problem and i tell him what needs to be done, i do the work and then he pays me. if any extra expenses come up, or i notice anything else major wrong that would significantly increase the price, i let him know before doing the work. here's what i did:
- replace all electrical plugs with newer quick-release ones, clean corrosion, seal w/dielectric grease
- replace all vacuum & pcv hoses on intake manifold
- replace valve cover gasket
- check injectors for leaks (pulled fuel rail), replace o-rings, reinstall
- fixed leak in speedo cable (inner & outer seal)
- change oil, new power steering belt
- fix distributor bolt holes (old holes in timing cover stripped) - drill out & tap new threads
- replaced dizzy stator, magnet, reluctor & rotor
- fix AAR (air regulator) that wasn't working
- did full FSM efi testing (since car was unreliable & idle kept fluctuating) - found several bad wires and faulty grounds, repaired
- replace oil pressure sending unit (with used one)
- adjust headlights
- new coil wire (old one damaged), resistance on other wires check OK
the parts came to $82.27. the $300 is for labor. it took a long time to do all of this - i would be about to finish one thing, then notice another thing wrong (like stripped dizzy bolts!)
car runs soooo smooth now. starts up perfectly, idles perfect, no fluctuation. really fun to drive now.
anyways, the only reason i'm asking is because i know people kind of tend to think "he didn't replace any expensive parts...why is it so much money?" what do you guys think? (by the way, i have a printed invoice, with disclaimer and everything, that he'll sign, in case anything ever goes wrong and he wants to say i'm liable) opinions?
1980 280zx w/L28ET MSnS-Extra, framerails are toast...
1982 280zx...newest acquisition...
1983 Maxima - just sits in the driveway these days...
A:
did you discuss with him a ballpark figure before doing the work and the other things that propped up?
--Denver 6-29-1999 1st post.
82 280zxt 4 spd auto
73 240z--lsd, cv axles
ferget donations, I'm into blackmail.
spindle pin puller for sale.
I can't believe some people spend $15 on shifter bushings in the B trans
A:
Sounds like you're a really good friend. I think he got a deal.
A:
"did you discuss with him a ballpark figure before doing the work and the other things that propped up?"
actually no, at first i was just planning on replacing electrical connections. i told him it was a tedious process, and he said fine. after that, he started telling me other things like "i wish we could clean this [intake manifold]" and "can we make it idle better, and not fluctuate idle?" stuff like that. he told me just to fix whatever little things i saw wrong.
but yeah, i should have given a ballpark figure, and let him know how the price was accumulating with each additional thing he asked. that's a smart idea.
i'm not really worried about this guy in particular; he doesn't ever mind paying what I ask. i'm just trying to get ideas, because different people always are asking me to "look at their cars" and i need to learn a better, more professional way of doing pricing. i'm not any kind of certified mechanic, but my time is still worth something.
1980 280zx w/L28ET MSnS-Extra, framerails are toast...
1982 280zx...newest acquisition...
1983 Maxima - just sits in the driveway these days...
Post Edited (Jun 17, 10:02pm)
A:
So exactly how many hours did it take to do all of this work? That would give a lot better idea if it is too much. If it took you 10 hours thats $30 an hour. Pretty good wage for a backyard mechanic, when doing things like this I usually shoot for $20 an hour, I figure with breaks and beer drinking I'm not really working the whole hour each hour.
BTW, I would recommend no invoice. With it he has proof of your involvement, without it, it's your word against his if it ever comes to that. Then there's tax liability, of course you were going to claim that $300 as income right? :) With the invoice again is the proof of taxable income received.
A:
A heater core will run you about $125. Labor is another $400-600.
A crankshaft pilot bushing is a few pennies. Labor is another $400-600.
A timing belt will run $30. Labor is another $400-600.
Parts are parts and labor is labor. You charge in reference to your time, not in reference to the part you replaced. Your friend got a deal in my opinion.
John
77280Z (Spooky), 83ZXT (Garage Queen), 86ZXT (Bulldog).
Proud owner of 10/03 Z car of the month.
A:
I think your friend got a deal!!
Phil
1981 280zxt
5-speed conversion,3.9 R200,Eibach springs,Tokico struts,Energy Suspension,K&N CAI,AutoMeter A/F, Boost, Fuel Gauges,Cusco Strut Bar,Greddy B Spec II boost control,Jeffp 3in mandrel exhaust,Magnaflow,Spearco Cooler, HKS BOV, 10 psi
A:
If I could get all that done correctly with those results for that price, I'd gladly pay & spend the time bike riding or sailing. I like working on the Z but also have more projects & farm out what I can. Usually people screw up working on the Z so it's my job. So...don't feel bad about the price.
Anyone can drive a new car.
A:
It would be around double that at a cheap shop, if not triple.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
"he told me just to fix whatever little things i saw wrong."
He's certainly getting a bargain. You shouldn't be a bit apologetic about your more than fair labor charge. A commercial shop would charge him much more, and dealer would be much, much, much more!
JR in Tulsa (4EVER Z)
73 240Z - L28, Triple Miks, 5 speed, 3.9.
83 stock 280ZX
Chaos, panic, and disorder---my work here is done!
A:
He didn't get a deal, he got a steal.
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
A:
cool, i was just a little unsure of myself. he picked the car up today, and was very pleased with how nice it is running, and wasn't upset by the price. i did apologize for not giving him a ballpark estimate in advance, and told him i'd be sure to do that in the future, he said no problem. thanks for the advice, guys!
1980 280zx w/L28ET MSnS-Extra, framerails are toast...
1982 280zx...newest acquisition...
1983 Maxima - just sits in the driveway these days...
A:
Dude. That was one hell of a nice thing you did. As a backyard mechanic, I would have charged double that and not felt one bit guilty.
$30/hr is about 30% what a commercial shop will charge and if you're good at it, you're worth every penny.
How many hours did you spend on all that? Again, the parts aren't expensive, it's the damn time that adds up.
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
If he'd have taken the car to the average corner gas station mechanic and just said "do this or that" it would have cost about three times that much, taken 3 months and it would run worse when he got it back. Plus they undoubtedly would have told him some hugely expensive component needed replacement (which it really didn't), and rape him for that.
You da man in this case. I think anyone with your working knowledge of Z cars could probably make a pretty decent moonlighting income — Zs aren't exactly MGs (for which you need witch doctor training LOL), but my experience is that they are complete mystery to many repair shops.
At any rate, yes, quote a ballpark figure ($30 for non-friends; $20 for friends?), an estimate of the time you THINK a job will take unless you find other complications, and an accurate accounting of parts and hours (actually write down the time you start, stop for lunch, etc.), including travel time to go get parts. When' I've done these things before, I also inform the person that I don't work fast. I have my own pace and if it looks slow, well, too bad. That's how I work.
Or you can estimate in your head how much time you're going to spend and give the guy a flat rate — "This will take me 5-6 hours to do everything you want. At $20 an hour you're looking at $120. If it takes longer, it's $20 per hour after that, but best case scenario is $120, plus parts. Are we good to go for that?"
Good luck. He got a deal.
'76 280Z driver, '75 parts car
A:
I dont think you should charge your friend any labor for the project. You could make him take you out for beers and shots and maybe a lap dance or two. What kind of "friend" are you that charges a buddy for your time?! By definition "friendship" is an investment in time!
Reconsider your invoice, I would rather have my buddies take me out on a night on the town rather than $300 the wife would make me piss away on the house anyday of the week.
------------------------------------------------------------
1978 280Z - I wish I had this much money in my 401K.
A:
There are shop books that tell the mechanics how much time and what price to charge for anything that needs to be fixed on a car.
Flate rates on labor per hour.
Some shops charge from $36 to $65 an hour.
How many shops in your are can fix an almost or is and antique car - correctly?
He is getting a great deal and if he is a friend should gladly pay for your time & expertise that is saving him money and saving his car.
The beer & food is just extra perk on his part to keep you happy and willing to work for cheap to help him out.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
Yeah no offense but im with erzelda on this one. If its a true friend not just someone I know if im working on there car (with or without them helping) im not gonna charge them $$$. But, they will owe me help with my car when I need it or a beer or two. Actually if I tried to charge a good friend of mine $300 for labor or any money period theyd laugh at me tell me to go **** myself and then ask where are we going for dinner.
Now, if its just some person that I know who ill call a friend just because its easier to say friend then yeah thats just some guy I know then he got a damned good deal.
A:
Sounds about right even on this side of the Globe (AUS) regarging a full service and inspection at good mates rates... Dealership would be LOTS more! Good job to me it seems!
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
Sometimes I write in short cuts that I know what I mean but I'm not clear to others.
I'm not saying you should not charge for your labor. I'm saying you are giving your friend a really good deal.
My view
Car owner friend: hey friend can you help me fix my car - I'll pay you what you think it's worth.
Repair Friend: sure let's see what you need.
Car owner: I'll pay for all parts and your labor.
Friend: here's what I think is fair. (friend has given price 3x under going rate)
Car owner: Wow that's great (while work is in progress brings food and drink) Takes friend out to celebrate a job well done.
Or -
Both of you are always trading off or helping on the car work. Both doing the labor.
But like me and sons - I stay out of the way so I don't screw up the car -
what I call #2 & #3 sons are really friends - so:
Dad: can you help - here's what I can afford.
#1 son
Dad: I need help. Woa - rember what you owe on this and that and those "loans" and hey you still haven't fixed the car you borrowed and what about all the free babysitting and and and etc. etc. etc. -
With parents you never repay the bill -
so you pass it on and agrevate your kids
and so on.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
He got a great deal and that is why he didn't complain about the price.
A true friend WILL value your time and pay you accordingly.
Later,Norm
-----------------------------------------
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
If the guy is happy then all is well. Don't worry about it. You may have even learned a little and became more proficient! Keep in mind though when others are quoting rates they have experienced in the past they are probably referring to well equipped shops, tools/lifts/insurance/parts runners/steep overhead expenses/ect. Of course I don’t know what your situation is but it sounded fair to me especially if he supplied the beer and/or has a cute sister.