A&Q about 350Z
Q:
Guys - Tough week at work, my best friend calls me at 9pm tonight and wants to get together at Barnes and Noble for a cup of joe, catch-up and flip through some car magazines - I guess you can call it our therapy. We stayed until 11pm (when they closed and kicked us out) and decided to head home.
My buddy drives a beautiful Red Evo VIII with an aftermarket exhaust and gauges on the A-pillar. I was driving my pretty quick lil sleeper - '88 Mazda 323 fitted with a Turbo Miata motor.
There are cops everywhere cracking down on the street racing scene here in Colorado Springs so we are doing 20mp/h - I kid you not!
My friend gets pulled over and charged for an illegal exhaust - $60 ticket. The cop was talking that the Evo's exhaust exceeded the 90db level, how does he know this without a db meter???? Then the cop even says that he used to own a Mustang with an illegal exhaust, and sold it as he thought it unethical to give tickets for illegal mods, when his 'Stang had them. Then the cops ALSO says that he is a "car guy" that loves 'Vettes and would never pull over 'Vette!!!
What a load of BS....
Then a few minutes later a block from my buddy house he gets pulled over AGAIN and charged $20 for no front licence plate! He tells the cop that he just got a ticket for the exhaust, he didn't care still wrote my friend a ticket! As the EVO came from Texas it had no bracket for a front plate and my friend had to plate in the car, which he showed the cop..
So is this profiling because of the racy image and look of the EVO?
I was driving my little sleeper 18year old Mazda right behind the EVO which is pretty loud, but was not hassled...I wish I was pulled over and charged...as I get pretty lippy with the cops and love going to court and fighting them and (9.9 out of 10 times) winning.
Here is my car:
I am trying to persuade my friend to take it to court and fight it, but he doesn't want to miss work and the hassle of going to court so he is going to mail-in the payment(s).
Your thoughts?
Yasin
Ole Skool "wouldn't have it any other way"
A:
what state is this in? in california the decible limit is 95 or less for modded exhaust. Its up to the cops discression to issue the ticket. go to court and fight it and you will win. you might have to take it in and be checked though first.
it is profiling here and the cops admit they do profile the "ricers" and ANYTHING with an aftermarket chrome can gets pulled over instantly and given the once over.
I have a stock exhaust Z06 and i deliberatly go by cops at high rpms just to get them to pull me over. they get pissed when they cant write me up for anything (they have no clue of internal engine mods as they are too stupid). i lost count on getting pulled over and think the idiots would learn.
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I'm with your friend, going to court is not cool neither is p!ssing cops off and getting a bad name for yourself and more importantly for your car. Cops talk, and alot of the time share tales about X car doing Y illegal stuff and will go out of their way to cause trouble for you in the future. Keep a low profile, tell him to pay the petty fines and be done with it. The last thing you want is for him to go to court because of advice you've given and they impound his car or suspend his lisence or something lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
That bites, but if your friend had a Texas car there is no reason why if should not have a place in front for it. We have to run two plates here...
I would fight the illegal exhaust if he did not open it up. What do they do when a Harley goes by them?
77 280Z with SBC, 700R4, Vette C4 IRS W/11.5 rear disk, Centerlines 16x9.5 W/BF G 245x45ZR Comp T/A Rear and 15x7 Ft W/BF Goodrich Euro 225x15 on ft. Soon to have Coleman 12.2x1.25, x-drilled, zinc plated, Rotors W/Billet Outlaw 4000. Z U V8ter
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Don't worry, those cops know what to do with those "lippy types!" So fast you won't know what hit you, I you "know what I mean." It just gits 'em all riiyelled up! Norm K PS"Next time yer in a heap of trouble BOY and he don't mean Lee-roy either!
Norman Krell
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my reputation around here is already well known with all the cops with having countless fast and flashy cars over the last 30 years. at my age i just dont give a crap anymore what they think of me.
its all fun and if they cant take a joke....
A:
Until someone loses an eye? Or something like that :)
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
Thanks for the replies guys.
I totally spaced that F&F Tokyo Drift crap move was out today! Makes sense.
I am a pretty vocal guy and if it were me I would take it to the Court, I would be respectful and articulate but still be able to embarrass that cop until his faced turned white and would not have a leg to stand on. I have done it numersous times.....the judge usually hears me out and I pay $15 in court fees and thats it (at worst). One cop a few years ago that I made look silly in court, waited for me outside and threatened that if he ever saw me driving around late at night he would target me....LOL...bring it on jackass!
Yasin
Ole Skool "wouldn't have it any other way"
A:
You broke the law and got caught? Not sure where profiling comes into play. When you have an illegal exhaust and don't have the proper plates, what do you expect, never to be pulled over?
Total of 80 bucks there, whoopty-ding-ding. Every car in TX has to have both plates as already mentioned as well. Either run a quieter exhaust and put the front plate where it won't block the IC or deal with the chance of getting tickets.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
Zlover-so you're saying we should roll over and stick our a$$es in the air everytime a mis-applied law comes down the pike?
Faster than a Motorola
A:
zlover57 - Dude you are standing on my last nerve.
Firstly - the exhaust on the car is CARB approved 50State legal...its aftermarket, its louder than stock but it meets all requirements in the City By-Law in the acceptable dB level, i.e less than 90dB...when did I say the exhaust was illegal ?
Secondly - To be pulled over TWICE in ten minutes and be charged $20 for something ridiculous as a front plate missing when it was in the dash on display. Obviously the stupid police are looking for any reason to target and charge.
If it were you last night going through the same BS, you would be singing a different tune...now run away will you.
Yasin
Ole Skool "wouldn't have it any other way"
A:
My brother likes getting lippy with cops and pissing them off, too. Or at least he did, until they put him in the can for 30 days (he touched one of them and they called it 'assaulting a police officer').
'76 280Z driver, '75 parts car
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You can beef the exhaust ticket (here, no Db meter at time of stop, no noise violation) but not the plate ticket. Real simple.
Rusty but running.
Polish cell phone and two tubes of Aluma-seal.
And, now we are historic.
A:
If you truley can prove the exhuast is legal, fight it. If you try the plate ticket you will have your ass handed to you.
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Man we have idiot cops around here like that. Most of them aren't worth a dime. it seems like the drunker the person is the easier they get away with whatever. they really like to harass the people that aren't really causing any problems. you guys should see my dad give cops hell around here, he's an "old school" street racer and has a love for the police i've never seen before :) i just know the old man is going to jail but amazingly enough he doesn't... he's telling the cops if they think that badge makes them badass's they got another thing coming if they don't lose the snotty attitude he'll fix it for em. these pigs don't know how to handle him. they get tone the attitudes down and send him on the way, its pretty amusing to watch.
Soon to be 86 NA to Turbo
92 240SX w/ 84 VG30ET (RIP)
A:
People complaining about getting tickets that they mostly deserved are also getting on my nerves. Let's evaluate this:
"The cop was talking that the Evo's exhaust exceeded the 90db level"
If the cop thinks that, it is law. If you think otherwise and can prove it, you take it to court and do so. As far as we know he's doing his job.
"Then a few minutes later a block from my buddy house he gets pulled over AGAIN and charged $20 for no front licence plate! He tells the cop that he just got a ticket for the exhaust, he didn't care still wrote my friend a ticket! As the EVO came from Texas it had no bracket for a front plate and my friend had to plate in the car, which he showed the cop.."
You didn't have a FLP. It's against the law not to have a FLP. You got a ticket. Don't see the issue here.
"Zlover-so you're saying we should roll over and stick our a$$es in the air everytime a mis-applied law comes down the pike?"
Whether the law was miss applied or not is to be distinguished in court. Maybe it was too loud. Unless you had a DB meter with YOU how do you KNOW? Have YOU tested it? Doesn't matter what the manufacturer says, any mod will change the sound level and they aren't going to pay your ticket regardless. I hate cops on a power trip as much as ANYONE here. I've only gone 6 months without a ticket ONCE in my entire life, which is right now and it's been 9 months. The last occurence was two speeding tickets in the same 10 minute period. I wasn't whining, I was speeding both times.
"Firstly - the exhaust on the car is CARB approved 50State legal...its aftermarket, its louder than stock but it meets all requirements in the City By-Law in the acceptable dB level, i.e less than 90dB...when did I say the exhaust was illegal?"
Doesn't make a rat's ass difference if YOU think it's illegal. The cop is who's opinion counts. If he's wrong you take it to court and get it dissmissed, whichever way that is possible.
"Secondly - To be pulled over TWICE in ten minutes and be charged $20 for something ridiculous as a front plate missing when it was in the dash on display. Obviously the stupid police are looking for any reason to target and charge."
There is a reason why they need the plate in a specific location. It isn't just to make revenue. If you want the plate law to be revoked, write a letter to your house or senate representative or join some committee. ANYONE can speak in front of your city council. If you REALLY care do something or learn more about it.
"If it were you last night going through the same BS, you would be singing a different tune...now run away will you."
9 months ago I had two speeding tickets in the same 10 minute period. Mine were much more expensive. However, they were out of state and it's a different situation financially.
I am as aware as ANYONE about how cops #1 priority is to bring revenue to the govt. Safety is up there too, but $ is #1. Same with the red light cameras. Check my other posts if you doubt my dedication.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
What's the difference between a cop and an IRS agent??
Restaurants don't give IRS agents free meals.
Our society is getting to the point of a pure dictatorship.
My buddy got the same exhaust BS ticket last week in Hickory NC.
His exhaust is also carb legal but that shiat didn't mean squat to the cop.
They don't give a shiat what is legal, they only give a shiat about what THEY SAY is legal.
You'll win in court on the exhaust, but you shouldn't even have to go to court for BS like that.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
Someone is missing the point, they PROMISED to pull over anyone with an import to teach them a lesson. Because they assume if you have an import you've broken a law or will break a law and need to learn your lesson.
Ten people will drive by you committing a crime in a truck/suv and they pull you over instead. That's whats wrong. Going after one group instead of everyone equally when they commit a crime. We learned our lesson with racism, lets not stop there. Cop sees 3 cars speeding, 2 family cars are leading, and a camaro/evo/whatever is following, they pull over the camaro/evo/whatever instead of the leader. That's another example. We're not that conservative, and I hope America never goes back to being that conservative/fascist. You catch someone doing wrong? Punish them. Don't ignore them and punish the kid or whatever instead.
"To be pulled over TWICE in ten minutes and be charged $20 for something ridiculous as a front plate missing when it was in the dash on display."
Be glad they didnt write him a ticket for not having a plate, AND a ticket for obstructing the plate. They can do that when its on the dash, behind the window.
I live in Texas, we have both plates. We also have vastly more conservative cops than Colorado. I didnt get tickets very often in Colorado, and learned a lot from police as far as how I was supposed to drive and what was safe. Not so in Texas. Colorado has safer roads.
A:
"You'll win in court on the exhaust, but you shouldn't even have to go to court for BS like that."
Exactly, our law enforcement should be the best in the world, and better every day. Not worse, as can happen under extreme conservative/republicanism. And yes i'm right of center, doesnt mean squat. Conservatives used to fear extremism.
zlover57: Why defend the bad parts of law enforcment?
Post Edited (Jun 17, 8:09pm)
A:
"I get pretty lippy with the cops and love going to court and fighting them and (9.9 out of 10 times) winning."
Only Ben Matlock & Perry Mason win 99% of the time.
And fighting a traffic ticket is very tough, especially when your local county is $11 million OVER BUDGET for their new courthouse. I got pulled over for allegedly rolling through a stop sign. I thought I'd take a bench trial & fight it for $50. If I lost, $50 + $70 for the ticket. If found not guilty, then no $50 fee & of course no ticket fee.
It was dark and raining. The section I came from was out of her view because of the tree line & an abandoned house with chest high weeds. The GA state law in which I was cited says "a clearly marked white line" will mark where to stop.
Now, you could see the stop sign from her location, just not the white line because it was "painted" a few feet back. I provided photos to the judge & pros. attorney which showed that the cop couldn't see from her vantage point. I also proved by photos that the white line was virtually non-existent. She also wrote on the ticket that weather conditions were daylight & clear.
I also brought proof that sunrise was at 715 (ticket at 705) & that there were severe thunderstorms the night before & day of. This was because of the rain & that there was heavy cloud cover & it was still totally dark. If I didn't have my headlights on she could have properly cited me for that.
During questioning the prosecuting attorney asked Charlie's Angel if she was sitting in the location I pointed out. Her answer was "No, I was located on the opposite side of the intersection. Perhaps if the gentleman had come to a full stop & looked at oncoming traffice, he would have noticed that." (Not verbatim)
I asked Charlie's Angel about the weather conditions & how could she see me from where she was & how she thought it was clear. Well, she claimed she saw my lights & that it had stopped raining at the time. She also got snippy when I questioned her location but it was something I couldn't prove. It's the taxpayer vs. the cop in that situation & the taxpayer will lose because they're only good for two things: voting for incumbents & paying taxes/fees in order to "generate revenue."
The fact is that I did stop & she was only able to see three sides of the intersection but she must have thought that I didn't stop. The problem for me is that there was no way for me to PROVE where she was located. However, either she lied about her location with intent or that NOW they sit on the other side because they realized later that 1/4 of the intersection was blind to them & she was confused.
Judge said guilty & $70 fine. So, I paid $120 instead of $70, & had to take two half days off because of PRINCIPLE.
A:
That's why I just pay my attorney to deal with the stuff. He guarentees me the outcome I want before the trial.
He is also reasonable.
I got a 78 in a 45 a few years back and he got me off scot free. I paid him $160 total and that was the end of it.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
"He guarentees me the outcome I want before the trial"
So he doesn't get paid if he doesn't give you the guarantee?
1993 300zx NA
A:
There was a thread on a subaru forum about an STi in Massachusetts(sp?), he had a dealer installed exhaust, and got pulled over for it being too loud. The judge didn't care that it was CARB approved because the law in that state says that any modification to the exhaust to make it ANY louder than stock is illegal.
_________________________________________________
This is my sig
A:
zlover57: Why defend the bad parts of law enforcment?
I don't, and never did. Pretty general and bolt statement you make there without any reasoning or logic behind it. You are assuming the cop was profiling etc. I go by proof because when it comes down to it, that is all that matters.
NOW, if he had been pulled over twice and HAD the correct FLP and HAD a 'quiet' exhaust, THAT'S something to post about. Breaking the law and getting caught is called cops doing their jobs. That's all I see evidence of here minus the exhaust's volume if it was indeed prooveable in court it was lower.
What you consider 'bad parts' may be completely justifiable you just don't know it.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
It is not ok to target one group and ignore everyone else when EVERYONE is breaking the law.
Here's how it works, EVERYONE breaks the law. It's up to police to figure out who to go after and who to ticket to keep up "safe". What they are doing is not moral.
They stated that because of fatf3 they were going to pull over EVERY import they saw and search it for any possible violation. A violation could be a sticker on the windshield, incorrect psi in the tires, the cheap brand muffler on my old car because I didnt want to spend $250 on a chevy brand muffler. 18 inch wheels, carb approved exhaust that is normaly ignored by law enforcement, Etc.
I was glad I didnt have to drive my eclipse to town the other night, I can guarantee I would have been pulled over several times and searched and then written bullshit tickets.
When that stuff is taken to the extreme(and we're slowly moving that way), it leaves you with fascism. Let's focus on having a good country, not a stupid one. If we see something wrong we dont have to say we like it.
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They could have impounded my car for my American flag. Because it "obstructed" view. If they felt they were "protecting the streets".
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I just operate on the expectation that all cops are as s holes & then go about getting the best outcome I can. I've only been wrong a few times. I say argue the muffler. Try to embarass tthe cop in the process. Why? Because he's a cop & ass by definition. Fix the front plate & just pay the $20 unless it counts as a moving violation.
Anyone can drive a new car.
A:
How interesting - see thread on "The City Prosecuter is ---".
You said it yourself at the begining - a city crack down on street racing -
very likely you and your friend are also guilty of DWY (driving while young)
the same as DWB (driving while black or brown or whatever the profile is in that locale).
Have your friend check on the exact wording of the law on both the muffler and the plate. It may be worth fighting. But then he doesn't think so.
In Houston - it is so large a city that if you chose to fight a lesser charge (things that are not moving violations, reckless driving and such) you stand a pretty good chance of getting the ticket dismissed.
If the Officer doesn't show up, there is no one to dispute your word. You'd best have a clean driving record too. Many things like mine, expired inspection, no proof of insurance - just show you got it within time alloted and it's dismissed.
The cops (Peace Officers) are not lawyers, they enforce what they are taught to enforce and what they are told to enforce by the politicians - what is the popular crackdown of the month - prostitution, burglary, street racing?
What is the media gripping about and how close to election time?
The Police are caught between the city/county/state politician and the public.
How anyone one would be dumb enough to sas a cop (human with a badge & a gun: doing a superhuman job) is beyond me. Why make yourself a target?
How would you feel if everyone around you gave you pure hell just for doing your job. I don't mean doing it wrong - doing it the way your taught - and what you do is never good enough (Why don't you guys stop the real bad guys - why don't you guys arrest this that or other?).
Now about that front lics. plate - I drove for over a year and a half in front and behind countless Lawenforcement and no problem. The car had no provision for a front plate.
Had the 8X10 color glossies to show the Judge too - but the prosecutor dropped the charges and I didn't even talk to the Judge. I know what Texas law says about front plates but -
what about all the cars out and coming out with No provision to mount one?
Well Slowrusty - good luck to your friend (it's his call) and to you - stay off the radar best as you can.
Now you want to gripe about tickets? I just got one for putting tree limbs on the curb 6 days before the heavy trash pick-up - $230.00 fine.
I will be voting against every encumbant idiot on city council and the Mayor on that one and a few more things I don't like.
When I was young I was liberal. I got more conservative as I got older. Now I'm just getting to be an anarchist. It makes as much sense as the idiots we've got now running things into the ground.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
In Reno I got pulled over on my way to class through a residential area for speeding, failure to stop (stop sign), and failur to maintain a lane. Now the stop sign I "ran" didn't exist. Just plain NOT there. The speeding I was doing? I was 5mph under the speed limit because I know that cops hang out there all the time. The failure to maintain a lane? My car wobbled a little when he flipped his lights on and I turned around to check. The funny thing was that where he was staking out was a 3 way intersection with one stop sign on the road that completes the T. So I didn't have to stop. He field of view was about 50 yards of me because the road was curvy and climbing a hill and crested right after the road he was on. And even while he had my I.D. in his hand he asked me my age three times. I go to court, make an ass of this cop, to the point where even the judge said "Wow, it really seems like this cop was just out for blood, what a jerk." And she proceeded to dismiss everything and I went on my way feeling good that I had made an ass of that cop in a courtroom. This was 2 years ago, I was 18 and driving MY 240z. I've gotten pulled over before on the freeway because the cop thought I was the previous owner, and he comes walking up to my window saying "I thought I told you not to let me catch you coming through...wait, you're someone else, sorry."
Point is cops are jerks, not all but a good majority are. I've seen plenty of profiling based on age and Japanese cars since F&F3 released. WAY more than usual. So my course of action is to drive my Z as little as I can for awhile, and lay low when I do. I work at a T.V. station and saw the raw interview with one of the higher ups, where he DID tell our reporter that cops will be paying more attention to imports with the release of F&F3.
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
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In Alabama you are issued only one plate for the rear. With out fail every time I bring a Alabama car back to Nebraska I am ticketed for no front plate. Try to explain the concept that some states only issue one plate per vehicle to an average cop that clearly has never been no more than 20 miles away from where they were hatched and you will quickly learn that the best course of action is to keep your mouth shut, accept the ticket, wipe your ass with it, and send it in along with your payment. Small consolation, but chicken soup for the soul.
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"wipe your ass with it" hahaha...nice
We have a completely differant problem in Calgary. I don't see the racism and profiling very often. The problem we have is too many cops, they are f$%kin bored. Our cops hand out tickets on a daily basis for every little stupid a$$ law ever written. You wouldn't believe the tickets people get here. And to top it off, city council just raised all fines to disgusting rates.
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1990 300zx NA
- Custom Exhaust
- JWT Pop Charger
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ouch.
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
A:
Im in Calgary too, and I can honestly say I haven't seen a city cop doing anything in a long time. All I see them do is park their asses at Tim Hortons for 4 hours of the day (that's a coffee shop for you Merik'ans)
I could go as far as to say that a doughnut and coffee shop has better security (more loaded guns) than anywhere else in a city.
As far as tickets go, If you drive a riced out crap-mobile you should have the book thrown at you to knock some sh*t loose in your head. Normal people call it "rice" for a reason, and if you cannot see past that fact, you have not a hope in the world. Most of those "mods" make the vehicles far more unsafe than the stock configuration.
Now, if your car passes for respectable and you truly enjoy your drive, don't let a cop ruin your day. Just let him do his thing and leave. I try to think of it as some Indian/Hobo trying to hit you up for spare change. I would tell the officer that I don't have any spare change for him, as I did nothing wrong.
Acutally, I have a little side project going on that includes carPC datalogging and a video-log composed from a few camera angles. Imagine showing up to court with enough evidence to make CSI look like animal trackers. There would be enough crap to keep the entire police station talking for some time.
DIY or DIE
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Oh, I've seen tickets. Everything from jaywalking to illegal left turns.
And, before I get flamed by all the "the law is the law people", I don't think crossing an empty street is cause for a ticket.
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1990 300zx NA
- Custom Exhaust
- JWT Pop Charger
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"So is this profiling because of the racy image and look of the EVO?"
Absolutely not! What it sounds like is more like a "Vehicle enforcement task force" which is where police agencies coordinate to sweep an area and give concentrated enforcement on obviously illegal items.
No different than a prostitution task force or drug task force.
You have to be quite a bit of an idiot to get tagged during a task force---they nailed your friend because he had two obvious violations---that is what happens during a task force---and it getsw the point across (usually due to local complaints) that lawbreakers won't be tolerated.
"Profiling" would be if your friend was fitting a "profile"---say shaved head baggy clothes driving a riced out car (er...evo does fit...) at 0230 AM. Then you get poulled over because the profile says that chances are good that a kid with a shaved head in a ricer out at 0230 is up to no good, and over 75% of the time, the profile is correct which is why it's such a valuable tool for enforcement.
So no, your buddy wasn't profiled---he was simply an idiot with obvious vehicle code violations on his car.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Nevermind.
Pellius
Twin Turbo/N2O 73z; "fulcrum"
car info at: http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/3liter/newengine.html
car builder info at: http://www.speedshopthagard.com/
87zxt; no mods. Well, I was thinking about a barefoot gas pedal mod.
Post Edited (Jun 29, 5:13pm)