A&Q about 350Z
Q:
This year there are a record number of people on the Club GTI /SeatCupra.Net ‘Ring trip. The whole essence of these trips is to have some serious petrolhead fun. But for the good of everyone, especially with the number attending this time, we need to be all too aware of the risks. The Ring is an incredibly unforgiving place. Nobody should be complacent about driving/riding the 'Ring: it can and does bite.
This has been checked over by seasoned ‘Ring drivers.
This 'FAQ' is out of the main 'Ring trip thread, since we don’t need countless discussion and doom dwelling – after all when you read it, it is straight-forward common sense, coupled with experience-drawn knowledge. More seasoned ‘Ring drivers will doubtless be familiar.
Please take time to read, ponder, etc. It could save you a whole load of hassle
(Now moved to post below).
A:
There are a whole raft of (click link), + others rules, such as:
- overtaking on the left only
- slowing for marshals working on the track (observe speed limits posted)
- not overtaking course safety vehicles displaying all lights on
- lights on for both cars and motorcycles, even in sunshine
- road legal tyres only, E-marked (‘Ring rules)
- accidents and immobile vehicles to be marked with a warning triangle
- Drive on dipped headlights, even in sunshine....
However below is some practical guidance - some personal rules to live by. Everyone has different opinions on attitude and approach, but this should help put us in the right collective frame of mind.
- Be humble. This is the greatest race circuit in the world, so don't take liberties. If you've never driven on a track, do not go tearing off on this circuit. After 10 laps, you will still know little about the track, the contours, the bumps: the bits that make all the difference. PS2 does not prepare you. 100 laps is the general benchmark for knowing this track. So sit back, enjoy learning it Don't rush it.
- Try to get one or more passenger laps before you go out for the first time This helps you gain familiarity, and at least gives you an opportunity to chat through the bends and really gain an appreciation of the place.
- Don't time yourself. Think about it: the more you learn, the quicker you become, by definition. 13 miles and 73+ corners to play with, it's hardly surprising. Then add traffic, which causes huge variations. Ignore Clarkson and his diesel Jag. No one should be impressed whether you've been round in 12 minutes or 8.
- Do NOT race anyone – there is always someone quicker than you. CGTI-ers/SCN-ers or locals. A car on your bootlid which wasn't there 2 corners ago is faster than you, period. So what if you have a list of reasons. Have a word with yourself - you’ll never see it again - and remember what’s at stake. Swallow pride, pull right and let it past. Back off for 30 seconds to build a gap.
- Overtaking technically on the left and move to the right to let someone past. But if a car or bike has forced its way to your right, go with the flow, and let it go down your right hand side. Yes, technically it's wrong, but why force a lane swap on someone at 80mph?
- Use your mirrors, regularly. The less cars you have around you, the safer you are.
- Do NOT sit in, or near, other groups with cars jostling for track position if you like straight panels. Instead get out of them. Back off for 30 seconds, let them go. It's only 14 Euros and your next lap might be a better one.
- Don't salvage a bad lap by trying to get ahead.
- Sniff out aggressive angry drivers and keep away from them. There are countless fast local Porsches, BMWs and VAG cars - some will wait for you, whilst some will sit on your back bumper mid corner. Don't panic, maintain speed, exit corner, pull right, let them go.
- It’s best to go out when it’s quiet. Weekends can be very busy, and you may want to cherry pick your laps. Fill your boots between 8am and 11am (it tends to be good), and take a more cultured view of busy periods through to late afternoon. By evening, things should be getting quieter again aim for some excellent runs in just before the close.
- Bikes appear very quickly, they are faster than you - let them go..
- ... but bikes and cars have 'very' different braking distances and cornering speeds so if a bike goes past, and holds you up in the next corner, accept it. Likewise you may find yourself itching to go past a bike on the outside in a corner. Be very, very careful, and give bikes room - or wait until you know you have enough room.
- The 'Ring is tricky in the wet. Back off, brake early etc. Whilst it's wet, it's slow. Get used to it, or head to the cafe for a coffee.
- Even if it is dry, there are often damp patches under trees in the mornings or an hour after a downpour followed by sunshine.
- Do not go near the kerbs if the track is wet – they are one guaranteed route to a spin
- Helmets in cars – if you have one, wear it. If you intend to bag a passenger lap in a caged car, the driver is likely to insist that you wear one. It's a wise investment.
- Do NOT hound bikes in the wet. Some novice bikers trickle around far slower than their four -wheeled cousins, causing intense driver frustration. Do NOT intimidate them if they are unwilling to let you past, even if you think they are being stupid. Back off of 30 seconds, then resume.
- Many corners look similar, yet have different endings. Some corners have unsighted exits, or lead into tighter corners immediately afterwards. Do not, repeat *do not* commit to any corner that you are unsure of.
- There are some very high speed dangerous corners and approaches. Identify where these places are, and avoid high speed entry to them.
- Do not over-commit to unknown crests (eg Flugplatz)
- Do not brake in the bottom compression of the Foxhole/ Fuchsrohre section
- Do not drive the Schwedenkreuz/'Sweden Curve' at more than 85% - the surface ripples and camber over the brow are very easy to underestimate.
- Do not be tempted run the cambered hump flat out between Kallenhard and Miss Hit Miss – the loads are incredible and loss of traction and a barrier trip on ‘landing’ is the inevitable result.
Orientation map
As a rule of thumb, there is little run off on the entire Nurburgring, but these corners/sections are exceptionally dangerous if mistreated.
- The BMW M5 'Ring taxi is one of the fastest things about - when you see it, pull off line to the right, and let it go. Do not, repeat, *do not* even try to chase it. Two corners and it will be gone.
- The weekend has a speed limit of 50 kmh/30 mph across Breidscheid / Ex-Muhle bridge – even the ‘Ring Taxi observes this – and the reason is the track exit which allows cars off and bikes on or off the track during weekends. If you were to hit anything exiting or entering the track, the Police will come down like a ton of bricks, so please be familiar with this location. The speed limit signs are there on track, but they are easy to miss.
- Concentration. Careful in the post lunch sessions. As lunch settles, concentration saps - it's 13 miles, so if you're not feeling sharp enough, wait an hour. If you can feel your concentration sapping half way round a lap, don't persist - drop the pace, and complete the lap safely.
- Armco is very expensive, something crazy like £100 a metre per strip and it hits your pocket or your insurance. The 'Ring charge lost revenue to those responsible for track closures (and some UK insurance policies exclude the 'Ring which means you are potentially open to a monstrous claim). Ponder the logistics of that for a moment. Spin off and you'll be lucky to escape with less than £1,000 by the time you’ve wrinkled a few metres of triple-height Armco. Plus whatever happened to you and the car. There is very limited run off at the 'Ring before you hit something very hard indeed. Treat it as an A / B-road.
- If you see an oil spill, be careful. Number 1 job is to immediately park your vehicle on the right-hand verge having assessed a safe place to put it, put hazards on. Warn following vehicles and ring the emergency number (below). Stay behind the Armco whilst signaling. For bikers, oil spills are the worst enemy. If you know a car is dropping oil, have a word and/or tell the 'Ring office: It could save a biker’s life.
- Arriving at an unattended crash scene. Number 1 job again is to immediately park your vehicle on the right-hand verge (German law, but personally I would take a view of the location before deciding where), put hazards on, use your car as a barrier. Personal safety is utmost priority. Warn following vehicles and ring the emergency number (below). Guide people behind the Armco. If there is enough help present, wave others by.
- Program the ‘Ring office number into your phone NOW for emergencies: +49 (2691) 302-215
- Take out adequate travel insurance. Also make sure you have a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to entitle you to free medical treatment in Germany. Go to the post office and get an application form for a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) this replaces the old E111 forms, its free or phone 0845 6062030 and give your National Insurance No. or online at . You should normally receive your card within a few days.
- Take out adequate car recovery insurance. The AA exclude the Nurburgring – check that one-way toll roads are included in your terms. recommends ADAC (EUR 78) since this enables you to get free recovery off the ‘Ring - each recovery normally costs EUR 175.
- Take note of insurance companies whether it be road insurance, recovery, hire car or personal travel insurance.
- The Police are active on the local roads, particularly on weekends. Take care to avoid coming off track, nipping down the road to get petrol or to cool brakes, only to get nicked for speeding in a 50kmh section.
- The ‘Ring do not allow in car videoing or bumper/bullet cams. Legal rubbish rationale lies behind it. Either don’t install, or hide well. If they spot one at the start barrier, you’ll be asked to disconnect, and repeat ‘offences’ aren’t worth it.
- Lastly, if in doubt, ask. There are many seasoned ‘Ring drivers on the trip, doubtless willing to share knowledge.
Provided everyone keeps these thoughts in their minds during the trip, we are set
Flag signals:
- Yellow: Accident, reduce speed considerably, no overtaking.
- Yellow/Red: Oil spill on course, reduce speed considerably, no overtaking.
- Red: Course blocked, stop immediately.
Dull bit: needless to say, you take this advice as informal guidance, given in good faith, and I, Club GTI etc cannot be held responsible for incidents arising as a result of misinterpretation or otherwise thereof.
Thanks for reading
(Reference sources used: / Ringerslist / / GVK / 91davidw / RevoKev)
Many thanks to Chris Eyre for this post.
A:
Final bump before departure folks.
If you haven't read this thread, please do so now, or please print it and make sure you read before you depart. Also take a copy with you.
We all want peeps to take care of themselves and others whilst on this trip, and I will not spend time whilst on holiday ticking off people.
It is our collective responsibility to maintain standards whilst on track.
Thanks
A:
I had a query from one of the trip members about insurance companies specifically excluding the 'Ring.
Ben Lovejoy states that "First, there is little doubt that statutory third-party insurance applies at the Ring. Whatever else it may be deemed to be, the Ring is legally a road, and insurers must cover their legal obligations."
So my statement above that "The 'Ring charge lost revenue to those responsible for track closures (and some UK insurance policies exclude the 'Ring which means you are potentially open to a monstrous claim)" is potentially OTT, since Lovejoy's comments suggest that the third party insurance remains in place.
What you can be 100% sure of is that an insurance co. exluding Toll Roads, the 'Ring by name etc will not cover your car comprehensively!