A&Q about 350Z
Q:
Hi guys,
Just thought i would introduce myself as the Co owner of Robin09's car as i've just signed up
I'll post up some more pictures of the car as Robin doesn't seem quite capable
Forum looks cool by the way
Thanks
Rob
A:
Hi guys,
Just thought i would introduce myself as the Co owner of Robin09's car as i've just signed up
I'll post up some more pictures of the car as Robin doesn't seem quite capable
Forum looks cool by the way
Thanks
Rob
Welcome to the madnes.... er Forum ! Keep the pics and updates coming, interesting stuff !
A:
Apologies for the limited information this week, this is partly due to me possibly having a change of plan regarding the race car.
Thinking out loud - The series will have both 8V and 16V classes, and my feeling is that the 16V class will be very popular and closely contested. I have done a few calculations and reckon my available budget will not allow me to develop my 16V to the level that will allow me to be that competitive. Not that I am any sort of Trophy Hunter!!!
I have put some feelers out and managed to find a fully prepared 8V for little more than I paid for my base 16V. The car has had mild engine work, a fitted cage, seats, exhaust, etc. I can then transfer the parts already purchased straight over without too much problem. Although part of me feels like this is a bit of a cheat, in that the car is already 85% there.
Not sure what to do, anyone any thoughts on this??
We had our first formal committee meeting for the MK2 Race Series last night, and I have been promised that the regulations will be made available before a week on friday (24th November)!! Watch this space.
A:
.... watching !
A:
Any idea which tracks will be involved? Will it be national, or limited to a few circuits (or even just one)?
A:
Would it be possible for a bit more info such as:
- the background to the lauch of this series
- team experience/credentials
- MSA application progress etc?
- which race series it would be attached to
As far as I understand, this series is aimed at lauching some seriously cheap racing for Mk2 Golfs, undercutting the relatively high costs of something like the VW Cup.
With the price of Mk2s, this all makes good sense. Base car car would be: £1.5k max., if that.
I would personally argue the case for engines to be as near standard as possible, and certainly on standard injection. Somehow modifications need to be cost managed.
Pat Flyn has rolled this one-make concept out in rallying for both Pug 205s and BMW E30 3-series cars, but has seemingly managed to keep control of those costs aswell.
A:
Apologies for the limited information this week, this is partly due to me possibly having a change of plan regarding the race car.
Thinking out loud - The series will have both 8V and 16V classes, and my feeling is that the 16V class will be very popular and closely contested. I have done a few calculations and reckon my available budget will not allow me to develop my 16V to the level that will allow me to be that competitive. Not that I am any sort of Trophy Hunter!!!
I have put some feelers out and managed to find a fully prepared 8V for little more than I paid for my base 16V. The car has had mild engine work, a fitted cage, seats, exhaust, etc. I can then transfer the parts already purchased straight over without too much problem. Although part of me feels like this is a bit of a cheat, in that the car is already 85% there.
Not sure what to do, anyone any thoughts on this??
We had our first formal committee meeting for the MK2 Race Series last night, and I have been promised that the regulations will be made available before a week on friday (24th November)!! Watch this space.
It could depend on the class structure. Are the 8 & 16v cars all running to the same regs, except maybe more engine work permitted on the 8v's to achieve a similar power to weight ratio, or will there be two totaly seperate classes with both scoring points toward the same championship ?
Personally I'd say the latter would be better, as Chris say's, to keep a cap on costs.
If the power levels are to be the same then the 16v is still going to be the cheaper option, requiring less mods (money) to achieve the same sort of result.
A:
Hi everyone. This is my first post since joining. I'm the fella that bought CircuitStar's Glof It depends on the mods that can be done within the rules.
Seeing as the 16V is pritty much max'd out on output there is only limited mods that can be done cheaply... If you want lots more power you start getting into the realm of telephone numbers for a properly built reliable engine. So the 8V route could be the way to go it just depends on how much pysical/cash effort you want to go into.
TTFN
Keep it country
A:
Again it depends on how it works. Will the 8 and 16 be competing seperatley or against each other? If it's a kinda free for all then very cheap 16v's are gonna eat very expensive 8v's.
A:
So the 8V route could be the way to go it just depends on how much pysical/cash effort you want to go into.
£5k could be dropped into an 8V engine with a bit of effort, just as much as it could be dropped into a 16V - which would be OTT (and is not particularly welcome in a series of this sort, if I am reading correctly between the lines).
Some very specific wording of regulations is required to kerb costs, otherwise anyone with the inclination and budget will blitz such a field.
At the moment, the information is not clear tbh
A:
I think this series has big potential, but the people doing the regs really need to be careful about specs and wording. It would be wise to involve someone who has an understanding of just what can be done to / spent on a Golf to limit specific areas, or it could all go a bit pear shaped. Its not clear at the moment quite where this series is pitching itself. It would be a big missed opportunity if this failed.
A:
If its relatively cheap, and good fun I couldn't care less if someone who's spent ££££'s laps me!
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Lots of people would care though - people race for a reason so you have to stamp it out at the start, or else it becomes a track day.
A:
& you just end up with rich trophy hunters.
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And soon enough the regs change to favour the big money spenders who can help make the series bigger.... then pretty soon cheaper cars are ruled out because they can't spend enough to match the regulations...
Then you get a VW Cup run by VW Racing again...
A:
Apologies for the limited information this week, this is partly due to me possibly having a change of plan regarding the race car.
Thinking out loud - The series will have both 8V and 16V classes, and my feeling is that the 16V class will be very popular and closely contested. I have done a few calculations and reckon my available budget will not allow me to develop my 16V to the level that will allow me to be that competitive. Not that I am any sort of Trophy Hunter!!!
I have put some feelers out and managed to find a fully prepared 8V for little more than I paid for my base 16V. The car has had mild engine work, a fitted cage, seats, exhaust, etc. I can then transfer the parts already purchased straight over without too much problem. Although part of me feels like this is a bit of a cheat, in that the car is already 85% there.
Not sure what to do, anyone any thoughts on this??
We had our first formal committee meeting for the MK2 Race Series last night, and I have been promised that the regulations will be made available before a week on friday (24th November)!! Watch this space.
What organising club will this be run under?
I understood MSA needs regs submitted for club c'ships be end of Nov for ratification in Jan.
(Castle Combe tell me this anyhows on their saloon regs)
Be interesting to see how the eligible cars fit your c'ship.
I have a genuine 16v Scirocco for example which *might* or *Might not* fit your regs.
{saying this without any clue as to what your series is}
regards
bill
A:
& you just end up with rich trophy hunters.
You will always find them.
see combe saloons and a £70K EVO built to try and win it! Club c'ship FFS but hey people are people.
Tech regs are key to its success.
A:
£70k is OTT, but arose because they have let it get out of control by increments (separate debate tbh, off topic). At least here it can be nailed from the outset.
A:
I would hope to see something like...
Weight limit around 880-900 kg's (should be achievable on a stripped Mk2 with a simple 6 point bolt in spec cage without exessive multi-pointing).
Power around 150-160 hp from a 16v with intake and exhaust tweeks, maybe the use of the exhaust cam mod, modded W.U.R and a maximum over-bore of 1mm (maybe 1.5mm ?). It would give those who want to fiddle with their cars and freshen up engines the chance to, but not get carried away with aftermarket cams and head work, and those who can only afford to run standard engines would'nt be "that" far behind, if at all.
Standard gearboxes, possibly with the use of a lower final drive and "maybe" Quaife diff's (a large group buy could help there).
Maximum standard 16v brake size, so 256's with free pad choice and braided line's, should give enough stopping power with the power/weight/grip available.
Top spec comp/track day type tyre, Yoko AO32/48's or Toyo 888's. All cars on the same tyre, again group/bulk buys would help costs and no one would have a tyre advantage/disadvantage. Plus a much better type of tyre to race on than a road spec tyre.
The coil-over issue is good in many respects (I'm personally all for it) though some who will want to run to a tight budget may find it a bit expensive (there are ways around that which may save a little cash). I would imagine though that company's like Leda, Coil-springs & Faulkners will have done standard diameter race spec springs in the past so should be able to help.
Poly bushes would also be good as replacements for old worn items and many cars may have them fitted already.
Roll bars....mmm, obviously good but really warranted in a budget type series ?
Max neg camber 2 degrees.
No spherical top mounts.
"NO" ballast penalties ! quick car/drivers should'nt be penalised for being quick in "any" formula, regs should be enough to stop this.
8v's should have a seperate class for those who already have them/prefer them but again, with similar mods to the 16v to cap costs.
Seperate class championship trophies so both models get their own chance plus maybe an overall championship which would reward consistency in either class.
Anyone else ?
A:
What's the real cost differential between 8v & 16v? I wonder if perhaps it is so narrow, and the supply of 16Vs so easy that a twin class system would be not needed. 16Vs all the way?
Other than that, all looks reasonably good. Standard valves, standard bottom ends, ?balanced? std rods.
Ban on special metering heads also, since they're silly money and not everyone will have one.
Then consider bannig seam welding - akin to Road Saloon regs - since it's time/money.
In fact Road Saloon regs are the reference point here, but their internal engine mods are much greater & engine costs spiral, but Road Saloon refugee cars should be factored in for de-tune eligibility, since there are a few of them about.
Done.
A:
I appreciate that you don't want to give too much away but if the rules are only 2 weeks away I would have thought that more solid details would have been released. Is it going to be a 2 race series or 20 etc? Is it going to be all at the same circuit or different ones? Whatever happens though I hope this series is a success
My view -
2 Seperate classes, 8V and 16V ( no point in mixing as the cars cost more or less the same, so who is going to want to spend more money on tuning a 8V to the level of a 16V )
Standard engines (blueprint), manifold and exhaust free
Standard injection system
Control tyre
Suspension only may be changed, no change to camber or toe etc
LSD's may be fitted
Brake pads only may be changed from standard
If the rules end up looking anything like this then I may be tempted
A:
Another question to add to the growing list...
Eligability of Cars...
Was wondering if the series will be mk2 Golf only or maybe allow the use of MK2 Jetta GTI as it is basically the same car??
From the E30 BMW championship point of view they allow the saloon & Touring so thought it might be a question worth asking...
Would be good to see a fairly near Standard rule on engines - this way it would keep the racing closer & allow the 'drivers' to race rather than their cheque books!
A:
Suspension only may be changed, no change to camber or toe etc
LSD's may be fitted
personally I'd hate that in a series - policing std camber and toe settings would be a nightmare - if someone has an off or bumps a kerb and their alignment gets knocked out does that mean they get disqualified?
Also - mk2 golfs *need* the alignment set differently to std to handle at all well on track - if std settings were specified then it may as well be a shopping trolley race.
Apart from that i'd always prefer driving a car with std shocks and springs, poly bushes, uprated arbs and decent alignment to one with whizz bang coilovers, std alignment and roll bars - it will handle far more pleasingly and be cheaper
as for LSD's - for the sort of power people are suggesting (IRO 170bhp) they are totally unnecessary - far better to have the competitors spend the £500 on other things
A:
You can't police camber - it's adjustable on the strut bolts. Ditto various tricks on rear beams.
Only when you have paid scrutineers policing make race series' can you achieve that (Clio Cup etc).
Volunteer scrutineers are a bunch of monkeys, as the Castle Combe saloons scrutineers bear out. Evidently there is enough knowledge on various forums to kick half their cars into touch, but the scrutineers know Jack 5hit, technically, since they are faced with so many different marques.
Anyway, it costs nothing to adjust camber. Tyre type will force camber settings, rear toe & camber will be set up, but it's cheap to adjust.
It's nailing the hardware down to a budgeted preparation price that's critical (though I accept testing/setup costs time & money).
Because once you've done that, entry fees will still be ~£250 for a race....(total guess)
A:
Yeah thats what I was getting at about keeping testing costs down, how much testing does it take to get a setup that you would be happy with? Allowing cambers and toes to be changed just adds to the things you can change and so requires more testing - more money, if you could only adjust tyre pressures and suspension damping then it might not be too bad
Only included LSD's as they would probably make a difference in the wet.
Everyones entitled to their opinions and if I was making the rules then they would be mine, I think the rules to this series are going to be very important and will either make or break it. For sure they are'nt going to suit everyone though, I hope it works out to be a success