A&Q about 350Z
Q:
Appologies for biting onto the tail of the thread on the other channel however it is a significant issue.
Whether drivers are experienced or novice an abundance of drivers are guilty of holding people up and this is apparent looking over the vids from Donny and my own experiences.
It doesnt set a good example so if my piers do it why the hell do us novices have to do any different ?
worms anyone ?
A:
Taking eratic lines & not moving over for cars stuck behind you who cannot figure out where the hell your moving to next so have to weigh up the risks more to get past.
Everyone holds a car up at some time or another as there is always faster cars about but try to stay to the side when available & indicate to let them know your aware of them.
A:
It’s only a case of finding a safe place to pull over to the right and lifting if necessary, it’s not rocket science
A:
Do you pull over on the right, or overtake on the right?
The itinerary we got from motorsport vision for the trackday at bedford autodrome this friday seems to contradict itself.
It says that you should pull over on the right, but also overtake on the right later down the sheet.
What is correct?
Im going with a friend from work in his caterham, and should be a good day.
Ill try and get some pics and vids, but can only promise phone quality pics as ive no digi camera(even though the cam on my phone is pretty good)
A:
It depends on the track but they tell you this in the briefing.
& bring up any questions you think you need awnsered.
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Thanks. I was going to make a call tomorrow, but itll wait now.
Im actually realy looking foward to this, it should be good fun.
Anyway sorry back to the topic...
A:
My explanation of track etiquette is:
Its not a race, dont act like a cock. Theres no place for straight line heroes.
A:
Good thread Major...
It is something generally mentioned and explained well in the drivers breifing of every track day I've ever attended,sadly one of the worst places for bad etiquette is the Donington Trackzone days, the breifings are generally muddled and not very clear what's what.
It's pretty simple, if you check your mirrors before and after every corner,and if there's a car there that wasn't there before, IT'S FASTER THAN YOU ARE!
Now,if that's a Mini,a 205 or a fecking Lambosakerarri PULL OVER at the exit of a corner with clear indication that you're going to do so.
DON'T keep the throttle pinned in your powerful car as the Mini that does 90mph flat chat, won't be able to pass, but when he does you'll not see him after he carries so much speed through the consequent corners.
If it's a Radical or some other Bonzai weapon,you'll not need to lift just pull off line, it's coming past anyway.
Something I'm guilty of but it's more out of frustration than anything else is driving too close to those that won't pull over, it's not clever but they should be aware whats going on around them. (imho)
A:
Good thread Major...
It is something generally mentioned and explained well in the drivers breifing of every track day I've ever attended,sadly one of the worst places for bad etiquette is the Donington Trackzone days, the breifings are generally muddled and not very clear what's what.
It's pretty simple, if you check your mirrors before and after every corner,and if there's a car there that wasn't there before, IT'S FASTER THAN YOU ARE!
Now,if that's a Mini,a 205 or a fecking Lambosakerarri PULL OVER at the exit of a corner with clear indication that you're going to do so.
DON'T keep the throttle pinned in your powerful car as the Mini that does 90mph flat chat, won't be able to pass, but when he does you'll not see him after he carries so much speed through the consequent corners.
If it's a Radical or some other Bonzai weapon,you'll not need to lift just pull off line, it's coming past anyway.
Something I'm guilty of but it's more out of frustration than anything else is driving too close to those that won't pull over, it's not clever but they should be aware whats going on around them. (imho)
Well said.
There's no trophy for 1st, 2nd or 21st!!
You might even learn a different and better line by letting a faster car/driver past.
A:
We're saying what's right, but we're not saying it from a person's perspective who is doing their first few track days.
If someone spends a few quid on a decent badge, and on paper it's statistically quick, they *are* statistically likely to have a problem letting stuff by.
Likewise, if you've put 200-300 brake under the bonnet, say this whereby someone stuffed a 240bhp Longman motor in a Pug 206CC (cabrio), I just know there's going to be a load of messing around if anyone gets near this guy on a trackday.
Decent briefings are the answer, but the red mist deletes all of that out of a novice's head (and more) when a 'situation' occurs. That Boxster weaving all over the place at Coppice was basically him saying "Ok, I'm pulling offline seeing as you're in some Golf I've got little respect for, wanting to be past. Come on, I'm off line, get past. Right where are you? F*ck it then, I'm not waiting all day, if you're faster, then come on. Right, that's that'
< pulls out again & fecks off >
Totally does not compute the idea of lifting off....
In that sense it falls down to the more experienced person to read the situation, accept it's not a motor race, and take a view: either nip by safely or back off.
Somewhere like the 'Ring I believe the latter option is a must - drop 30 seconds and let the relative novice clear off before you end up stressing him/her off the tarmac.
A:
Completely agree with Gary on this, on a well run trackday with a good briefing the overtaking rule is usually covered in detail as this is the most likely time for 2 cars to collide. It will be stated that you should keep up good observation in your mirrors and on most circuits overtake on the left, ideally once the car in front has indicated or signalled (some caterhams etc) their consent. Also that the car being passed should lift.
Occasionally i might follow somebody for a couple of laps or vice versa be followed for a couple of laps to get a good bit of incar footage, but this will only be after discussing it before the session with the person concerned so we both know what we're doing. Though we would still be overtaking each other or anybody else along the straights and still with consent. Whilst also being careful not to hold anybody else behind us up.
Now i personally don't mind the Donny type days where it is generally harder to get past people, but i'm a pretty experienced trackday driver and i drive a old trackcar. I wouldn't want to be in that kind of situation as either a novice or in a car that mattered to me and i certainly wouldn't want that style of day to be the norm.
A:
Chris is also right you can generally tell the cars on a trackday which will cause the problems, but if the briefing is good and the day well run it shouldn't happen and to be fair on most BAT, Easytrack, Javelin trackday it doesn't.
Funnily enough it was on another circuit run trackday at Snett last Yr, that there were issues with bad etiquette, there was another v.poor briefing which again resulted in poor driving standards.
All comes back to the briefing as if there are newbies or novices on a trackday who have not done days with a proper organizer then how will they know unless they are told what the rules are.
Just look at the donny day where there was a queue of people were lining up on the start finish straight all day under red lights rather than coming back into the pits. At other days the organisers would have a fit if that happened, everyone of them would be black flagged and given a *******ing, it would not be allowed to happen again and again.
A:
I've added a poll to the Donny thread so we can get a feel for where that event ultimately sits in people's minds.
A:
I'm a bit of a novice track day enthusiast as many of you know and havn't got that many track miles under my belt yet. But from what I have seen and learn't, the above comments stand. The 1st few track days I went to, i did panic a bit when fast cars came up behind by indicating wrongly etc but after a while you get the hang of it.
Maybe trackday organisers should ask who is a newbie and who has experience and thus forcing noobs to stay in begginer sessions to start with and see how they go.
I have seen bad etiquete from various people too. Last one was at donny where a VR6-T mid engined RWD mk2 that would steam along the straight but then hold me up on bends. After 1 1/2 laps i took the route of overtaking him on the outside partly on the grass. Now this is wrong of me but what was i supposed to do? I'm sure a lot of you have been there too.
Gurds
A:
After 1 1/2 laps i took the route of overtaking him on the outside partly on the grass. Now this is wrong of me but what was i supposed to do? I'm sure a lot of you have been there too.
Gurds
Not having a dig gurds as i'd probably do the same as you, but what you should do is back right off for a entire lap, let him and anybody else around you sod off, then back on it and enjoy your session. Then when back in the pits go find a marshall and get them to have a word with him. Problem is i'm not sure at somewhere like Donny on one of there own days if they would be bothered, but they should be.
Now i know thats easier said than done and i've been known to have a bit of red mist from time to time, but it's not a race and it's what can cause accidents, either by someone having to go off line or by trying too hard and having an off.
As for the newbie/novice drivers it's hard to police what session people put themselves in and you will get people who have done loads of days but still drive like cocks. Ultimately novices should be encouraged and taught not scared, the more people on track the better and the more plentiful and cheaper trackdays will be.
I'd also always recommend getting a sessions instruction whenever it's available, i've done probably 40+ trackdays now and still get instruction from time to time, theres always more to learn. True some instructors are better than others, some just show you lines whilst others will teach driving technique but as a novice they are all worth it.
A:
Hi Gurds, i remember that VR6-T mid engined RWD mk2 at Donny, what a pain he was.
As for the above, the briefing is all important and common sense does not go amiss.
In that sense it falls down to the more experienced person to read the situation, accept it's not a motor race, and take a view: either nip by safely or back off.
''Nip by safely'', is not really possible within the requirements of a trackday,as overtaking is supposed to be with consent.
''Back off'', to be blunt,why ? As can be seen in the video that prompted this thread,i was driving with restraint and within the rules.
But lets not get bogged down with the very few negatives of the day,it was a terrific day that i enjoyed very much.
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I have seen bad etiquete from various people too. Gurds[/quote]
Yes and you just demonstrated it by doing it yourself
A:
''Back off'', to be blunt,why ? As can be seen in the video that prompted this thread,i was driving with restraint and within the rules.
It's up to you, you can either follow him for the rest of the session screaming under your helmet "get out the way" and getting wound up or you can back off for 60 seconds and enjoy the rest of the session. Agree he is in the wrong but nonething can be done whilst on track.
But lets not get bogged down with the very few negatives of the day,[/quote]
Agree
A:
I have seen bad etiquete from various people too. Gurds
Yes and you just demonstrated it by doing it yourself
I said I was wrong but so was the driver of the mk2. I did what I though was appropriate which is obviously wrong. Had the same thing from a cossie driver at Sierra Combe before at Combe. Spent two laps waiting to get past. He was being defensive so I had to choose a line and went round him. Happened twice on the same day on different sessions. Now i am being bluntley honest about doing this but I'm sure I am not the only one. I let a mini pass at Combe and spent the rest of the session chasing him. He was quicker into bends while i had more straight line but overall were similar. It was fun. But had I not let him pass, he would have just got ****ed off as I would hold him up into bends.
Gurds
A:
Endless "I'm right and you're wrong" thread tbh.
You have to cut people some slack, whether at Blyton or at the 'Ring.
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ive never been on a circuit, my main consern is,im stayin to one side because ive seen a faster car come up behined, lets say we are goin through a series of corners,at some point am i not gonna be on the racing line thus getting right in thier way??
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Good and bad track day etiquette on display here...
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Cheers chaps Lots of interesting points to take on board and honesty.
My point for raising the thread was to find out more about good track behaviour, positive driver actions and track procedure.
This issue is not going to stop me doing track days but it might make me more selective on the events that I choose to do when I develop more as a driver.
TBH the briefing at Donny wasn’t one of the worst I’ve had at a track day, as a novice how am I going to know any different. Retrospectively some of you chaps have stated it was a crap brief but is there a means of feedback to the officials from the more experience drivers to the track officials ?.
Club GTI track etiquette guide anyone !
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It's up to you, you can either follow him for the rest of the session screaming under your helmet "get out the way" and getting wound up or you can back off for 60 seconds and enjoy the rest of the session
No screaming or getting wound up, it was the last few laps of the last intermediates session of the day.
You have to cut people some slack
I did just that.
Endless "I'm right and you're wrong" thread tbh
Not really as i think it is quite plain to see by all.
A:
like gary said and like I have heard on many a trackday brief..... if somethings in your mirror (hey yes they are in fact fitted to your cars!!!) and it was'nt there before.. go figure it caught you up.. be nice, next straight pull over to the designated side from the briefing, indicate, lift off the gas if he needs your help to pass, and then resume.
Mirrors.. being kinda important.. but so often neglected.