A&Q about 350Z
Q:
I'm just looking to Gage peoples interest and opinions on polycarbonate windows for trackcars.
I might be getting my old job back working for a plastics stockholder and I'm considering rekindling an idea I had long ago about supplying made to order polycarbonate windows.
I can get market leading Lexan Margard for a a decent price and I have a few contacts with flatbed routers who could cut to spec no problems.
Has anyone bought PC windows before or know what the going rate is for them?
Also what thickness would be best? I've placed orders before for people but there was no congruency with the thickness' used, some wanted 2mm some wanted 4mm and some 3mm???
cheers
Phil.
A:
4mm is the minimum thickness for MSA events so that would probs be the best.
mine should have been about £130 but i wanted Bronze tint.
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if you can get turnaround times pretty quick then you should make a killing. been waiting on my windows for feckin ages. how hard is it to produce them with a green tint :S
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if you can get turnaround times pretty quick then you should make a killing. been waiting on my windows for feckin ages. how hard is it to produce them with a green tint :S
I can get them to my preferred fabricator and back to me in probably 1 week tops.
Not so sure about Green, bronze is readily available but in Europe we rarely use green PC, they use a hell of alot of it in the far east though.
I'm told green is harder to produce with the pigment variation form batch to batch. I have seen it come through the warehouse a few times however the volume is less and the price is higher as a result.
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4mm is the minimum thickness for MSA events so that would probs be the best.
mine should have been about £130 but i wanted Bronze tint.
mmm, food for thought there. What size in total area roughly are you getting for £130.
The sheets come in either 3050x2030 or 2440x1220 (mm).
EDIT: Also do you know what grade you are getting? standard, UV, anti-scratch???
sorry for all the questions.
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I'd be interested. I would be looking for same thickness as original glass so I can re use the rubbers. Don't know what that is though...Doh.
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Depending on price, I'd be interested. Believe P4P do bronze for about £150 from what I've heard. My 205 (complete set with sliders, 4mm bronze) was £175.
I'd say 4mm minimum. Could you do sliders and is this front, rear and rear screen? Would it be front single piece as well (do away with front quarter)?
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i'd be interested in the rear 3 windows for my mk2 (want to keep opening fronts), bronze tint and anti scratch would be nice
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The 'market leader' here, as before when I think we were discussing this, is P4P for the reason their poly carb has a perspex coat which is very scratch resistant.
Lexan scratches if you f*rt near it, and it soon looks untidy... and it's not necessarily that cheap. I'd sooner pay £150 to P4P than £100 for some Lexan.
A:
Got this reply from P4P based on a Mk2 golf:
The costs for the MK2 golf as requested (windows are usually cut to the original shape of the glass unless otherwise specified, the std kits contain all windows except for the front screen)
Manufactured from 4mm thick Material to meet current MSA/FIA specifications in the UK or if required can be manufactured from 5mm to meet european FIA regulations, All materials used are double side UV protected and preminum grade plastics manufactured for outdoor use.
Clear FLEXIGLASS @ £176.25
Clear POLYCARBONATE @ £199.75
Bronze tint POLYCARBONATE @ £199.75
Grey tint POLYCARBONATE @ £199.75
Slider Kits @ £23.50 per door and come fully fitted
Carriage to UK mainland is £15.28
VAT is included in all prices
I'm pretty sure I could get the materials and fabrication done for less than that and still turn a small profit. The only additional and worrying cost would be carriage but TNT aren't that bad for price from memory.
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Does anybody have a pic or know how the sliders work? Is it a cut hole with runners bonded on top and bottom with a catch or how does it work?
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The 'market leader' here, as before when I think we were discussing this, is P4P for the reason their poly carb has a perspex coat which is very scratch resistant.
Lexan scratches if you f*rt near it, and it soon looks untidy... and it's not necessarily that cheap. I'd sooner pay £150 to P4P than £100 for some Lexan.
The Lexan Margard brand is extremely scratch resistant and probably superior to what P4P use, only problem is it's damn expensive.
I gave Parz a whack of it, 12mm clear you could have used as armoured windows for a tank!! Just a tad to heavy for track/rally cars...lol
On a side note, funny story, I was over in Holland a few years back for a factory visit to GE plastics and they were demonstrating how PC is superior to acrylic. They had frames set up with PC in one and acrylic in another and set fire to them both. The demonstration was meant to show how PC has superior fire resistant properties, although the Acrylic performed much better! lol "Moving schwifdtly on to de nexcht building pleasche" said the tour guide....lol
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there was a topic ages ago i got prices of differnt types of pc i'll se eif i can find it
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i payed £116 for a 2440mmx1240mm sheet of 6mm lexan margard for my car.....
that is the trade price i get it through my dad at.... its enough for a full set of MK1 glass with a spare front windscreen for when the other scratches!!!
A:
That sounds about right for a while ago as the suppliers prices to distributers changes every month nearly Ro. It's basically because of the price of Benzene. As you know Benzene is one of the major chemicals involved in the production of petrol from crude oil. It is a very harmfull chemical and OPEC I think recommended that it should be phased out and replaced with a substitute, only problem being they cant find/recreate abything to do the job as well. This was about 2 years ago they first pushed for the change and as a result the producers of Benzene cut production to a minimum.
With a shortage of Benzene about what there was was channelled through to the primary customers ie BP, Shell, Enron etc and as a result PC, styrene and acrylic all went up by approximately 15-35% with PC being hit hardest as it requires more.
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what sort of a price am i looking at for a 3 door mk1 golf with green tint ?? have been wanting a set for a while but have been unable to find any .
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what sort of a price am i looking at for a 3 door mk1 golf with green tint ?? have been wanting a set for a while but have been unable to find any .
I couldn't give you a price just yet I'm afraid. I've only roughly worked out the costs involved plus if I get my old job back working for a stockholder I'll be able to get the material even cheaper.
Lets just say it will be cheaper than P4P.
I'll keep a note of who might be interested and get some answers as soon as I have done a bit more research.
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Does anybody have a pic or know how the sliders work? Is it a cut hole with runners bonded on top and bottom with a catch or how does it work?
Pretty much, though usually no catch. If you want them 'locking' you need to drill a few holes and use a split pin to prevent movement.
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Lets just say it will be cheaper than P4P.
but how scratch resistant will it be? I'm all for cheap windows, but not up for replacing any should they get untidy....
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PM sent Chris.
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polycarb will scratch more than a quality acrylic will, lexan is just another name for polycarb. we had p4p make a couple of sets for the mk5 race cars did a good job.there is no such thing as a complete scratch resistant plastic. i made mine out of a 4mm exterior grade acrylic, been in 2.5 years now still look ok
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we had p4p make a couple of sets for the mk5 race cars did a good job.
I made mine out of a 4mm exterior grade acrylic, been in 2.5 years now still look ok
What do you reckon the P4P is made from Mike?
Do you have any trade names for the 4mm exterior grade acrylic?
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There is another material that I'm surprised isn't being used more, UV grade PETG. It's similar to the stuff used on the outer skin of a coke machine, very good impact resistance.
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p4p made the mk5s out of flexiglass 3/4 the strength of polycarb but with the same scratch resistance of a acrylic. Perspex is just a trade name for acrylic. ici are regarded as the best in plastics also repsol are good. lots of suppliers have there own bands which arnt bad.Lexan Margard is the grade up from flexiglass which p4p do, required for rallying which is a polycarb coated in a scratch resistant cover. ideal if u want to barrel roll into a load of trees. for circuit racing acrylic or flexiglass is fine
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p4p made the mk5s out of flexiglass 3/4 the strength of polycarb but with the same scratch resistance of a acrylic. Perspex is just a trade name for acrylic. ici are regarded as the best in plastics also repsol are good.
Good info - cheers.
So (in order):
- Lexan = Polycarbonate
- Perspex = Acrylic
- Polycarb will scratch more than a quality acrylic will
- Flexiglass is ¾ the strength of Polycarbonate, same scratch resistance as acrylic
P4P call their's which I think is a P4P rename of an ICI brand called Plexi-Glass. At one stage P4P were suggesting they were having this ‘custom’ made which practically speaking is doubtful, given the volumes involved.
A project car article in VW Motoring called it 'Flexiglass 075'.
The problem with even circuit racing is that mud on windows rubbed in with a sponge when washing will then scratch up, so my view is that you need the polycarb, coated in the scratch resistant cover (a Perspex laminate I believe).
Lexan Margard sounds good (grade up from flexiglass, polycarb, scratch resistant laminated).
Any sources?