A&Q about 350Z
Q:
ive got some chunky 50mm hose laying about. ive got an idea in my head to use to hose to duct air from the lower vents in the front bumper (ie where the horn sits) and run the hose through to direct air onto the brakes/calipers.
the brakes barely/hardly fade at all, but would this be a worthwhile exercise?
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I've often wondered about this too. Looking forward to the responses.
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If you are not getting any problems with your brakes overheating and fading then there is little or nothing to be gained from doing this.
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Matt
Don`t bother, you would probably make things worse ..... if it`s a standard car.
Bundles
Re. the TSC `quote` ... why ?
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you cant make things worse, with metal discs the cooler you can keep them the better and the less likely they are to warp. If youve got nothing better to do then why not? Why wait until you get fade to do something about it...
If you do it, then there is no value in directing airflow at the face of the disc or at the caliper. The correct place to put cooling in is at the centre of the disc. Assuming you have vented discs, the air will be drawn through the vanes due to the pressure differential from the centre to the disc tip (which is running much faster) and this cools the disc very effectively
Hope this makes sense and let us know how you get on.
Cheers,
Pad
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you cant make things worse, with metal discs the cooler you can keep them the better and the less likely they are to warp. If youve got nothing better to do then why not? Why wait until you get fade to do something about it...
If you do it, then there is no value in directing airflow at the face of the disc or at the caliper. The correct place to put cooling in is at the centre of the disc. Assuming you have vented discs, the air will be drawn through the vanes due to the pressure differential from the centre to the disc tip (which is running much faster) and this cools the disc very effectively
Hope this makes sense and let us know how you get on.
Cheers,
Pad
Don`t agree with your theory on `the cooler the better` as there is an optimum temperature operating range for brakes.
Also, does it not rain where you are
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i had the same feeling as Pad.
ie it will keep the brakes (and fluid) that little bit further away from the point where they get too hot.
in regard to rain, i doubt that will make any difference. brakes get wet anyway, if theyre hot they just boil the water off.
my only concern is if grit/crud gets on to them (my discs are cross drilled).
has anyone done it before? ill have the car up in the air tomorrow, ill see how easy it will be to run the hoses. if its easy ill just do it to give it a go.
saying that, i rarely get the chance to run the car hard anyway, but im sure it will make the braking system more effective
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Don`t agree with your theory on `the cooler the better` as there is an optimum temperature operating range for brakes.
Also, does it not rain where you
what temperature is that then? AFAIK there is no optimum temp for brake discs unless they are carbon, in which case they need bringing up to temp. Metal discs need to be kept cool, I have never heard of anyone having problems putting forced air to the correct place on the disc.
Not being funny about it, but I do think you are mistaken.
Cheers
Pad
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Pad
I`m more than happy to learn and / or be corrected however, personal experience leads me to my opinions.
Cheers
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right... im going to get the hoses cable tied (bodged) into place... and then we'll all know :D
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the brakes barely/hardly fade at all, but would this be a worthwhile exercise?
On the subject of "brake fade" is this not a term used from days gone by in regard to drum brakes.
The hotter the drums the larger they get resulting in brake fade.
Whereas with discs the opposite comes into effect.The hotter they get the larger they get so brakes bite more.
So with that in mind the only upside of cooling ducts is to reduce temp to avoid any isues such as warped discs or whatever other damage heat can do.
Or am I missing something ?
My early 16v had the cooling ducts to brakes and tbqfh the brakes were 5h1te anyway so I don`t think it helped or hindered them in any way.
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Isn't brake fade when the brake fluid gets hot and "boils" - turning partially gaseous and hence having compressibility. Hence the fade. Correct me if I'm wrong..
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to be honest i would uprate the brake lines to goodridge ones to alow better flow of brake fluid
cant see cold air ducts helping it much better to b honest, although in theory it should work, but its not been proven across other VW forums i dont think
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Isn't brake fade when the brake fluid gets hot and "boils" - turning partially gaseous and hence having compressibility. Hence the fade. Correct me if I'm wrong..
thats pretty much bang on what i thought it was, hence if you keep it cooler it will take more abuse.
another thing that would be a total miracle would be if it blew the brake dust clean away from the car and not make my x-spokes such a ***** to clean... may be graspiing as straws there tho :P
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I run brake ducts on my mk1 trackcar and they make a massive difference. I use race pads which need to get upto temp to work properly, so i keep the ducts covered on the road and then uncover them once on track. If however i ever forget to uncover them i'll know within a lap or too and vice versa if i forget to cover them back up i'll remember the 1st time i come down a motorway slip raod and the brakes don't work.
Mine point at the bottom of the disc. i agree the centre is ideal but is not really feasible to get them there when using 80mm hose.
The point of using them on a car thats not getting fade is debatable, but i can't see it doing any harm and it's easily reversable.
Re. brake fade, you can get fluid fade, when the fluid boils this usually results in a long pedal sometimes with little warning or pad fade when the pads are past there best operating temp, this usually results in a firm pedal but the car doesn't slow with increased pressure. Both are very scary!
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when the brake fluid gets hot and "boils"
hydroscopicity
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I
Re. brake fade, you can get fluid fade, when the fluid boils this usually results in a long pedal sometimes with little warning or pad fade when the pads are past there best operating temp, this usually results in a firm pedal but the car doesn't slow with increased pressure. Both are very scary!
Or both at the same time in a pug 406 with halfords disks and pads, in a big hurry. I ended up having to pull over and stop due to the front wheels doing next to nothing when i stood on the middle peddle. Rear wheel steering anyone?
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Was the mk1 Reeves beast using ducting when it died?
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Think you would be better off using the ducting to get more cold air to your airbox then trying to cool the brakes
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Re. brake fade, you can get fluid fade, when the fluid boils this usually results in a long pedal sometimes with little warning or pad fade when the pads are past there best operating temp, this usually results in a firm pedal but the car doesn't slow with increased pressure. Both are very scary!
i guess this is what happned to mine at donnington, i could press the brake pedal to the carpet, with hardly any noticeable braking
was quite scary
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Think you would be better off using the ducting to get more cold air to your airbox then trying to cool the brakes
my cone is ducted from the fog light blank... no issues with that at all, in fact it was the last thing i sorted out, hence have the left over ducting.
i might do some tests on this braking idea.
measure the time taken to do 5 repeated stops from 100... then do it again with the cooling.
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Well this was a VW option on MK2 16vs, so I can't see it doing any harm
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It wont do any harm at all, the debate is wether it will do any good under noraml usage.
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Could have fooled me, there was some healthy depate at the beginning over if it would do any harm or not
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My Rallye is fitted with it from factory, and I think my VR is.