A&Q about 350Z
Q:
Rob so moving the hub outwards must reduce the bearing load on 2" wider wheels, rather than having a 2" dish
would you be restricted in your race regs from using aw tracksport adjustable wishbones?
Andy did you use the passat driveshafts too?
i'm using all mk3 vr6 stuff on mine so it's all pretty different
A:
Yeah i used the passat shafts, had to, tried the standard ones in the hub with the wishbines and you could feel the inner CV was pulled out as far as it would go.
A:
Prof - the issue is getting the camber off to get the wheels pretty much
straight up
Lots of euro hillclimbers use massively dished wheels (13 x 10's for eg)
and they seem to do uk........
Rob
A:
ahah, the "seem to do ok" line, presented frequently on here
who knows, it's all subjective really isn't it
so to get the camber off some top mounts like
would give you real freedom.
A:
The thinner bolts are here on Bildon:
I agree that something doesn't 'feel' right about thinner bolts, but I've been aware of this mod for ages.
Doubt VW would use it on rally cars (they were bending Mk2 hubs, let alone bolts) but maybe it would suffice for circuits..
A:
if i have my thinking head on straight today
thinner bolts, more likely to be sheared? well surely this is only if they are loose, as to shear them you have to first overcome the clamping force, or have i lost it
A:
It's as simple as this, couple of people said to me that this wider track malarky makes the car 'feel' much more stable, esp in fast corners.
I've had no problems running my car on 2 dges neg camber for the last two years and am happy with the handling of the car set up like this, I don't use crossply race tyres.
I've not thought about this in the way some of you guys are doing, if it feels rubbish I'll swap it all back.
Just to add, I'm not knocking those who would rather think about a mod scientifically rather than just get on and do it.
Edited by: GVK
A:
I've not thought about this in the way some of you guys are doing, if it feels rubbish I'll swap it all back.
Best plan for sure... quit the jibber jabber and go try it, if its pooe, its pooe, if not, jobs a goodun'
A:
i'm with gvk on this, i never take anybodys word for nuffin, always have to find out for my self whats best :)
putting bearing wear asside, i still dont get why using spacers/wider wheels, isn't the same. cos either way your still making the track wider??
i'm not picking i'm just curious about both
couldn't you get away with a compramise on the suspenon bolts? by using one thin bolt at on the top nut(to allow extra movement) and the bottom one the standard big one?
A:
couldn't you get away with a compramise on the suspenon bolts? by using one thin bolt at on the top nut(to allow extra movement) and the bottom one the standard big one?
You could do that, and that's what I would do, it's not as though we're talking about putting an M8 bolt through there, the thinner bolt is just that, thinner, not thin.
I'm told there's a bolt used on a mk3 (plus axle) ~( heavier than a mk2) that can be used
Once I raise the suspension it will make the negative camber less than it is now anyway.
A:
what year passat you get your bits off? also where abouts are the thinner bolts on the mk3?
A:
I believe it was an early 90s Passat, I didn't see the car, I bought the bits from someone on here.
Top bolt of the two that secure the hub upright to the suspension leg.
A:
putting bearing wear asside, i still dont get
why using spacers/wider wheels, isn't the same. cos either way your
still making the track wider??
With new wider wishbones, you're moving both the wheel and the bottom
of the strut outwards. Now, my A Level Physics is something of a blur,
but as far as I can see, it shouldn't change the spring rate since the
bottom of the strut is in the same position relative to the wheel as it
ever was. What I can see it doing is allowing a more precise control of
the wishbone - possibly causing the feeling of stability as mentioned
above.
Mine's an H plate Passat; 3 of them in my local scrappy alone. Lets
just say that as soon as you try and undo the caliper retaining bracket
bolts you can see why even though it's a year newer than my car,
it's the one in a scrap yard, if you get my meaning!
Fordo!
A:
spacers v longer wishbones
ok to increase track width with just wider wheels or spacers will give you a very low or negative ET, this will affect the scrub radius
same track width with wider wishbones can be acheived with the same ET as previous, the scrub radius will also change
spring rate will fall, as the strut is at more of an angle
"The greater the scrub radius (positive or negative), the greater the steering effort and the more road shock and pivot binding that takes place. When the vehicle has been modified with offset wheels, larger tires, height adjustments and side to side camber differences, the scrub radius will be changed and the handling and stability of the vehicle will be affected."
Edited by: prof
A:
a 0 scrub radius is supposed to lead to a squirmy feeling under braking,
positive scrub gives more feel, but more torque steer type feelings.
most FWD cars come with negative scrub, i haven't measured up a mk2 to find out. but looking at the diagram above a longer wishbone should make it more negative. MK3 vr6s come with ET 43 wheels this must increase the negative scrub radius
Edited by: prof
A:
You could do that, and that's what I would do, it's not as though we're talking about putting an M8 bolt through there, the thinner bolt is just that, thinner, not thin.
Surely you mean, light wieght racing bolt
Keep the race geeks happy
A:
Just to add something that Gary has touched upon, the MK3 Golf (notwithstanding them being 4 or 5 stud) all use slightly narrower hub to upright bolts which have an 18mm head as opposed to the MK2 Golfs 19mm head - when I get the chance to have a look on ETKA later I will have a look to see if the bolt is indeed narrower on the MK3 as I suspect.
I have run a wide track MK2 and as a road car it felt a lot more composed - all I can say to you Rob is to try it, nothing ventured, nothing gained?
A:
Nice to know how its done if I need to - thinking of just using wider
wheels, dunno yet for sure though, neeed to get bodywork on and then I
can see how much room there is
Borrowed a cracking 8x15 that looks the dogs !, will be ET20 and scrub
radius will end up just slightly -ve (on 16V geometry and 15's) - trying to
avoid zero, dont think slightly +ve will be achieveable but mabe.
Would like to use VR6 uprights as they look stronger but not sure if can
fit a 4 bolt Mk2-type hub in VR6 wheel bearing - anyone know ?
Cheers
Rob
A:
I`ve run et20 for 2 1/2 years or more and wheel bearing wear isn`t really an issue tbh, but the wider wishbones seem a better idea (I spaced my wheels out for coilover clearance). My scrub radius has increased going by the drawings and the car does tend to torque steer a bit when you boot it!
A:
Nice to know how its done if I need to - thinking of just using wider
wheels, dunno yet for sure though, neeed to get bodywork on and then I
can see how much room there is
Borrowed a cracking 8x15 that looks the dogs !, will be ET20 and scrub
radius will end up just slightly -ve (on 16V geometry and 15's) - trying to
avoid zero, dont think slightly +ve will be achieveable but mabe.
Would like to use VR6 uprights as they look stronger but not sure if can
fit a 4 bolt Mk2-type hub in VR6 wheel bearing - anyone know ?
Cheers
Rob
What figures are you using to calc the scrub radius?
Whats the standard Standard MK2 figure?
Interested to see whats happened to mien with the 8x15 ET15 wheels and the wide track.
The car feels better with the widetrack and the wide wheels than it did with the normal track.
A:
Andy,
You're running 15X8 wheels with a 15mm offset... with widetrack?
Are you running G60 arches? if so how much do the wheels sit inside the arches?
MG
A:
Andy,
You're running 15X8 wheels with a 15mm offset... with widetrack?
Are you running G60 arches? if so how much do the wheels sit inside the arches?
MG
The pic in my sig gives a pretty good idea.
Basically they fill the arch's!
A:
how much do the wheels sit inside the arches?
They dont
A:
I`ve run et20 for 2 1/2 years or more and wheel bearing wear isn`t really an issue tbh, but the wider wishbones seem a better idea (I spaced my wheels out for coilover clearance). My scrub radius has increased going by the drawings and the car does tend to torque steer a bit when you boot it!
Did you notice any improvements to the handling with ET20 Keith?
A:
Feels flatter round the corners, although it tramlines a bit more than std, steering feels marginally heavier (maybe a good thing!).