A&Q about 350Z
Q:
ahah, the "seem to do ok" line, presented frequently on here
who knows, it's all subjective really isn't it
so to get the camber off some top mounts like
would give you real freedom.
They look nice.
which would you choose for a Mk2/3 based car then?
Where to buy in UK?
A:
a 0 scrub radius is supposed to lead to a squirmy feeling under braking,
positive scrub gives more feel, but more torque steer type feelings.
most FWD cars come with negative scrub, i haven't measured up a mk2 to find out. but looking at the diagram above a longer wishbone should make it more negative. MK3 vr6s come with ET 43 wheels this must increase the negative scrub radius
Wide out in the piccy looked more +ve scrub, compensated with laer ET wheels to bring it back in again, to maybe nett neutral?
am I reading the piccy right?
dazed and confused.. its me age
A:
a 0 scrub radius is supposed to lead to a squirmy feeling under braking,
positive scrub gives more feel, but more torque steer type feelings.
most FWD cars come with negative scrub, i haven't measured up a mk2 to find out. but looking at the diagram above a longer wishbone should make it more negative. MK3 vr6s come with ET 43 wheels this must increase the negative scrub radius
Wide out in the piccy looked more +ve scrub, compensated with laer ET wheels to bring it back in again, to maybe nett neutral?
am I reading the piccy right?
dazed and confused.. its me age
Increasing the wishbone length will increase the negative scrub radius.
Reducing the ET would then bring it back to a more factory setting
From the picture it would appear that for a given increase in wishbone length you'd get a larger change in scrub, ie 10mm in wishbone length would be more than 10mm increase due to the fixed poistion of the top mount.....
Hence why i wouldnt mind some of your figures Rob out of curiosity to see whats happened to mine. Not that i'm gonna alter it or anything, just for factor
A:
maybe i'm having a blonde (senior) moment.
in the piccy.. the positive scrub radius is showing a wider wishbone? Is that whats its showing us?
For the same ET wheel its more +ve scrub radius and the strut top remains in the same position. (going by the picture)
the cars have -ve scrub radius tho from the other post, with VR's getting ET43 wheels where previously they would have been ET38 to bring back scrub radius from its more +ve level back again despite its wider track?
SAI Steering Angle Inclination? will increase from a wider wishbone as you say from being leaning inward more. (hence lever ratio change on sprint rates etc)
maybe I am looking at that picture wrong.
Edited by: badger-bill
A:
In the picture the only thing that has changed is the ET of the wheels.
Increasing wishbone lenght would give more negative.
I would do a diagram, but cant really be bothered lol
A:
LOL.. that makes more sense now..
Brain was in wider track comparison mode.
Ta
A:
Scrub radius on a 7x15 ET35 wheel running -1 camber is -45mm - this is
of course at the ride height of my car and with std 16V geometry.
My aim is go to an 8x15 wheel and at least ET20 if not ET10. At ET20 the
SR ends up at -30mm (more +ve than std) and at ET10 the SR is -20mm.
Even at -20mm its still comfortably away from zero and more +ve than
std for better steering feel. There may be a bit more torque steer but my
car has an LSD in it anyhow.
If you use passat widetrack (15mm further out) and go to ET10, your
getting seriously close to zero which is bad for braking stability.
The other advantage of getting nearer to zero (but not zero) is more even
use of tyres - having the strut intersect with the ground as near to the
center of the tyre as possible will allow the user to spread the load in the
tyre by adjusting tyre pressures - higher presure makes the tyre bulge in
the center and thus, take more load. If the intersect is away from the
center of the tyre, its much harder to tune the load in the tyre using
pressure adjustments.
Rob
Edited by: RobT
A:
Scrub radius on a 7x15 ET35 wheel running -1 camber is -45mm - this is
of course at the ride height of my car and with std 16V geometry.
My aim is go to an 8x15 wheel and at least ET20 if not ET10. At ET20 the
SR ends up at -30mm (more +ve than std) and at ET10 the SR is -20mm.
Even at -20mm its still comfortably away from zero and more +ve than
std for better steering feel. There may be a bit more torque steer but my
car has an LSD in it anyhow.
If you use passat widetrack (15mm further out) and go to ET10, your
getting seriously close to zero which is bad for braking stability.
Rob
So, if i am following this correctly, ET10 on passat is close, thereofre my ET15 would be 5mm further away from zero, which would actually be a not too bad result?
Of course my car is a bit lower so its not directly comparable
A:
(to anyone worried about the thinner bolts)
why dont you just go and buy some higher grade bolts from a bolt supplier. may need to order them in cos high grade bolts are rare but safe than sorry ey.
A:
thinner bolts are fine, shear strength rather than clamping torque only becomes a problem if they are loose
bill, those pics were just for reference i'd never actually measured a mk2 to find out
Rob good work so we have some figures at last.
if running et10 on wide wishbones, you can still move the scrub radius around with adjustable top mounts.
I', thinking of importing some of those mustang ones, but will need to look at the strut mounting to see if they are compatible
then look for somewhere where they actually know about setup to get all the camber/castor sorted
A:
Bill i'd have tought you'd be using the fully adjustable AW tracksport wishbones on yours, if so i'm sure Andy would set it all up to your preference.
A:
Bill i'd have tought you'd be using the fully adjustable AW tracksport wishbones on yours, if so i'm sure Andy would set it all up to your preference.
Fabricated/adjustable wishbones are already sorted as to manufacturer from Autosports show meeting.
Still shopping for bits and method to go widetrack by same as RobT is. Both cars getting wide F2 arches over the winter.
Thanks anyway.
A:
Surely just use whatever method seat did??
A:
Surely just use whatever method seat did??
Yeh, F2 struts and uprights/wheelbearings/hubs are 10-a-penny, as are hand built custom front subframes and wishbones
Got any more bright ideas........
A:
have you 2 talked to max torque about all this, he's very clued in on suspension setups
A:
Surely just use whatever method seat did??
Yeh, F2 struts and uprights/wheelbearings/hubs are 10-a-penny, as are hand built custom front subframes and wishbones
Got any more bright ideas........
Well i havnt looked into the Seat stuff
You never mentioned earlier why you are lookingfor a cheap option!
A:
have you 2 talked to max torque about all this, he's very clued in on suspension setups
Max torque has a seat ibiza (shell) with a longitudinal Renault WRC engine driving the back wheels - ford WRC-spec front uprights and some 5-link fabricated rear end with a BMW (I think) rear axle. It looks the dogs - made much of the bodywork himself. Works for prodrive so knows what he's doing (just a bit!)
Not exactly std stuff and probably not much help to us for our application
But yes he is a smart guy
Rob
A:
I'm selling my car so my Widetrack setup is up for grabs.
;PN=1&TPN=1
MG
A:
Surely just use whatever method seat did??
I wish.. a bit exotic.. bespoke uprights etc
DIY (cheaper) solution being sought
A:
So after all this stuff going over my head has GVK finished the wide track yet?
A:
Car still sits awaiting gearbox, so more progress
back order, sucks
A:
Ok, i put et25 7x15's on my car instead of the factory et38's and noticed this. The car does feel more stable into corners and braking from high speeds but the increase in +ve scrub radius has caused this. When exiting slower speed corners under hard accelleration, the car power understeers badly but with the factory et wheels the car has much more grip and doesnt power understeer half as much. I do have a quaiffe diff and uprated arbs/suspension etc.
From what I have learnt, im going to need to fit adjustable/eccentric top mounts in order to bring the scrub radius back to a more usable geometry for my lower et wheels. Right or wrong?
A:
adjustable top mounts will allow you to move the scrub radius around
RobT what i meant was have you or bill discussed this with Max as I remember him having some strong opinions on front end setups, and i'm sure he'd be a mountain of usefull info
mind when you look at the clio williams, that ran a wider track that stock as does the turbo fiat coupe, must be something in it
A:
does anyone know for certain if the mk3 18mm bolt is in fact thinner, and a part number too?
A:
Have a look for my thread, asking the same Q...
It's a shouldered bolt, according to ETKA.
Edited by: GVK