A&Q about 350Z
Q:
probably a bit lighter aswell.. i'm sure jason wouldn't want to add anymore weight to the car
Not at all, in fact that was one of the reasons for only using 1.5 ltrs instead of the full 2 !
A:
you can fill em via the reverse switch hole if you fear the speedo drive will fall off
Good idea, ta. Thanks for all yr help and advice on this one chaps.
A:
that don't sound to good. i would have thought any kind of noise would indicate a problem. had a very similar noise on my mk1 before. drove for ages with it and there appeared to be no problems. however a bearing self destructed about 1k miles later....
probably a good idea to get it stripped and checked again and replace all the bearings. could it be excess pressure/heat in the box that caused the end plate to pop?
A:
that don't sound to good. i would have thought any kind of noise would indicate a problem. had a very similar noise on my mk1 before. drove for ages with it and there appeared to be no problems. however a bearing self destructed about 1k miles later....
probably a good idea to get it stripped and checked again and replace all the bearings. could it be excess pressure/heat in the box that caused the end plate to pop?
That'll make me sleep better tonight !
Just had all new bearings (well the major ones at least).
Thats my thinking on the noise too... not sure bout the heat, cause of the plate falling out or due to all the oil droppin out ?
A:
Just an update...
Fitted a new end cap and re-filled with "2" ltrs of Valvoline fully synth 75/90 this time. Whining noise still present on power and over-run though not damage after it's Castle Coombe "dumping" session. Box just gets warm after a 10-15 mile run at 95 + on my private test track .
No idea how the cap fell out as the new one was "snug" when tapped in, but I don't predict it happening again...
A:
had to look twice at that
A:
some time,s if the clutch lever falls to low , it will push back on the thrust bearing and push the green plate off , useually, when the clutch cable is disconnected though or may be the wrong thrust bearing fitted , just a thought , .... paul
A:
some time,s if the clutch lever falls to low , it will push back on the thrust bearing and push the green plate off , useually, when the clutch cable is disconnected though or may be the wrong thrust bearing fitted , just a thought , .... paul
I guess that cold have happened during re-fitting the box, never looked at the end of the box after fitting, cheers Paul. Dont think the bugger will come out now though !
A:
had to look twice at that
A:
I have never put 2L oil in an 020 - especially with a quaife diff fitted - more like 1700ml - not a good idea to over fil them either
A:
Yep was about to say that too Rob, i always fill mine til it just starts to run out of the side hole, which is a bit under 2L, less than it took before the diff went in.
Jason, your noise sounds exactly the same as mine, it's a rattly, whiney noise that gets louder as the gear speeds increase, worse on the overrun and can be stop completly by just applying a little power. When driving on the motorway at a steady speed you can play with the throttle to turn the noise on and off. Also goes as soon as you dip the clutch.
Mart has stripped my box 3 times now and everything appears okay inside and the car has now done about 10 trackdays, 2 ring trips and a good few thousand road miles with it. i think it's either wear in the gearsets themselves or as mentioned a mish mash of gears that cause it.
It started when i got the lower fd fitted, and mart swapped some internal parts around for me to use the least worn gears. I've given up chasing it now i don't think it's doing any harm, just very annoying , but i'm not going to swap the box over again until i actually get any probs with it or it goes bang. On the brightside i can now remove and refit box in about 2.5 hrs.
It's not from the clutch, swapped a few different types over and it's not the little metal plate on the end of the crankshaft and i've not got excessive end float.
i also get a rattly noise at standstill if i rev the engine up, which i can hear from under the bonnet which also goes if the clutch is dipped. Guessing it the same cause, i have tried another old gearbox of unknown history on it and that made this noise too, but i didn't bother connecting up the driveshaft etc and actually try driving with it.
I'd personally just stick another set of ear plugs in!!!
A:
Oil level then 2.0L or not 2.0L that is the question.
I've done a couple of oil swaps on 020 boxes in 2.0L 8v mk3s and I always just fill in the side hole till it starts to trickle out which as said above is around 1.7L. I thought this was the idea of said side hole. With the car parked on level ground when it starts to come out of there the boxes has the required oil level, is this not correct? I'd have thought if it needed more oil the side filler plug would be a bit higher.
What will happen if the box is overfilled?
A:
Oil level then 2.0L or not 2.0L that is the question.
I've done a couple of oil swaps on 020 boxes in 2.0L 8v mk3s and I always just fill in the side hole till it starts to trickle out which as said above is around 1.7L. I thought this was the idea of said side hole. With the car parked on level ground when it starts to come out of there the boxes has the required oil level, is this not correct? I'd have thought if it needed more oil the side filler plug would be a bit higher.
What will happen if the box is overfilled?
I think the new VW spec, at least over here, has changed to 2.0 US Qts or 1.9L. The factory papers I have say 2.1 US Qts. or 2.0L. I always recommend the old capacity spec of a full 2.0L.
The trans made before September 8th, 1987 (mfg date code 08097) have the side filler hole 7mm lower than those boxes made after that date. For the early trans, you fill until it is level with the side fill hole, then install the filler plug, remove the speedo, and add 0.5L more through there.
For the later trans with the 7mm higher plug, the proper level is reached when it is just to the bottom of the hole.
The design of the seals used in the box provide greater sealing pressure on the selaing lip with increased pressures inside the box. This means if there is an increase in pressure, due to a blocked vent on the trans, the seal, in theory, should seal up tighter against the shaft. If the seal is dodgy to start with though, it'll leak. The seal lip has greater surface area on the inside of the seal, so increased pressure inside the box would press the lip tighter against the rotating shaft.
There are 2 styles of vents to check for...one is integral as a part of the 27mm selector cover, and the other is a short tube on the top of the trans near the detents that should have a loose fitting black plastic cap on it. The vent in the 27mm cap is protected with the flappy bit of the rubber that the clutch cable passes through.
I'd be careful running the early boxes without the additional 0.5L of fluid, as this is about 25% of the total capacity, and given how prone 5th is to death due to low fluid levels, you really want to be sure to keep it full.
Check my site for more info on the damage to 5th and the 020...
*edit* -- Oh, the 1.7L thing is likely that way because no matter what you do with the trans, you cannot fully drain it out. I've spun them every which way on the bench on the VW rotisserie to drain them, and you always end up with some inside the case when you open them. You're adding the 1.7L to whats still pooled inside the trans.
Broke
A:
Thanks for clearing that up Broke, once again hats off.
A:
some time,s if the clutch lever falls to low , it will push back on the thrust bearing and push the green plate off , useually, when the clutch cable is disconnected though or may be the wrong thrust bearing fitted , just a thought , .... paul
I guess that cold have happened during re-fitting the box, never looked at the end of the box after fitting, cheers Paul. Dont think the bugger will come out now though !
great job on the cap , be care full on your oil level, if you rev the f eck out of it , oil will pass the oil seals, if over filled , then slippy clutch time, .
A:
[quote=mr hillclimber]if you rev the f eck out of it [quote]
Looks like you've got the problem sorted for good now Jason that cap isint going to go anywhere now.
A:
I have never put 2L oil in an 020 - especially with a quaife diff fitted - more like 1700ml - not a good idea to over fil them either
Ahh... I mentioned that I only had 1.5ltrs in the box and it was suggested that i go for the full 2ltrs as 5th gear is'nt lubricated properly if the oil level is low.... boxes arnt my thang at all so any advice is good, thanks.
A:
Jason, your noise sounds exactly the same as mine, it's a rattly, whiney noise that gets louder as the gear speeds increase, worse on the overrun and can be stop completly by just applying a little power. When driving on the motorway at a steady speed you can play with the throttle to turn the noise on and off. Also goes as soon as you dip the clutch.
I'd personally just stick another set of ear plugs in!!!
Yep, VERY similar, but I dont have any rattle, and yes I can turn the noise on & off just as you discribe, and it also goes when dipping the clutch. My box is a bitsa for the same reason as yours. There was no noise for a fair few hundred (maybe just over a thousand miles), the noise just appeared one day and got a little worse so I pulled the box out and gave it and all new bearings (Genuine VW) to the chap who built it the first time, but the noise is still there.
Both myself and my best mate who's been repairing cars for 20 years thought it sounded like the diff bearings, but obviously not as they're new again, even the chap that stripped it said all the bearings were unworn (no pitting) but some of the cage's seamed a bit slack so we fitted all the new ones.
I have a better idea than the the ear plugs, I just rev it harder !
A:
I guess that cold have happened during re-fitting the box, never looked at the end of the box after fitting, cheers Paul. Dont think the bugger will come out now though !
great job on the cap , be care full on your oil level, if you rev the f eck out of it , oil will pass the oil seals, if over filled , then slippy clutch time, .
Cheers, I just did'nt want to chuck anymore gear oil down at Castle Coombe again !
Wot do you mean... "if" i rev the feck out of it ! I "always" rev the feck out of it... though never over 9k !
A:
[quote=Dub Nutta][quote=mr hillclimber]if you rev the f eck out of it
Looks like you've got the problem sorted for good now Jason that cap isint going to go anywhere now.
You like that Ray..
A:
[/quote]
I think the new VW spec, at least over here, has changed to 2.0 US Qts or 1.9L. The factory papers I have say 2.1 US Qts. or 2.0L. I always recommend the old capacity spec of a full 2.0L.
The trans made before September 8th, 1987 (mfg date code 08097) have the side filler hole 7mm lower than those boxes made after that date. For the early trans, you fill until it is level with the side fill hole, then install the filler plug, remove the speedo, and add 0.5L more through there.
For the later trans with the 7mm higher plug, the proper level is reached when it is just to the bottom of the hole.
Broke[/quote]
I've seen yr site, exellent work. So you'd say the full 2ltrs in mine then ? its an FM code 1600 GTi box. After re-fitting the end cap, I've put the full 2ltrs back in this time, that right ?
A:
So you'd say the full 2ltrs in mine then ? its an FM code 1600 GTi box. After re-fitting the end cap, I've put the full 2ltrs back in this time, that right ?
2 liters only if the box is bone dry, like after a rebuild.
When you drain them, you mostly drain them, as there is always some left inside the trans. I've always meant to check to see what's left in one, but never remember to do it when I crack one open.
If there is 0.3L or 0.4L of fluid still coating the inside of the box and parts, pooled up in nooks and crannies, then adding 1.7L will bring it to the 2.0L spec.
The factory papers I have, while older, are showing 2.0L for the FM code.
These pics show the difference between the new style filler plug and the old style filler plug. The new style was changed Sept 8th, 1987, and the fill hole was raised 7mm higher.
The old style, the filler hole is centered in the "bump" on the 5th cover....
The new style shows the filler hole being raised a bit out of the "bump", raised up 7mm...
If your trans has the old style with the hole centered and low, then you fill the trans until it starts to dribble out of the fill hole, plug it up, and then add 0.5L more through the speedo hole.
If your trans is the newer style with the riased hole, you fill it until it starts to dribble out of the fill hole, and then you're done.
Broke
A:
first class info that broke , respect, .,,,.. reguards paul
A:
2 liters only if the box is bone dry, like after a rebuild.
Or if the end cap comes out on a right hand corner !
By your description, mine is the early type (as seen in the pic of the end cap further up the this thread). Sounds like I need to "adjust" the oil level as I put a ltr in through the side plug (bur none ran out) and another ltr down through the speedo gear hole. I thought this maybe ok in view of how the oil came out (!) as I expected it to be totally empty, maybe thats not the case ?
I guess if I drain out the oil through the side plug and then put 0.5 of a ltr back in through the speedo gear hole then that should make it about right ?
A:
I expected it to be totally empty, maybe thats not the case ?
Not totally, no. Even when I try to drain it fully on the bench, spinning it around on the rotating stand, it won't drain totally empty.
I guess if I drain out the oil through the side plug and then put 0.5 of a ltr back in through the speedo gear hole then that should make it about right ?
Yep
Broke